Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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turbof1
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Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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This is the speculation thread about the 2018 car. Rumors, articles, ideas and fantasies about the car can be posted here. Once the car gets officially launched, this thread will be closed and discussion continues in the official thread.

Topic will be unlocked after the season finisher in Abu Dhabi.
#AeroFrodo

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dren
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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I'm not expecting huge visual changes. If the Honda is really as compact as some people say, then the rear should be a bit tighter.
Honda!

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Sieper
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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Toro Rosso STR13 "unlucky for some" #-o
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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2018 there we go 8)
Will the relationship between engine manufacturer Honda and client team Toro Rosso be one-way traffic, or will the noses of Red Bull Racing be heading in the same direction? The latter seems more and more the case.

"We are currently working closely with Honda and Toro Rosso to ensure that it becomes a competitive package," Marko confirmed in conversation with Sky. "We are very pleased with the steps that Honda will make and will make before the new season starts. We are willing to help Honda so that the technical possibilities are fully utilized. We can offer facilities such as Red Bull Technology, for example. "That is the organization responsible for the construction of the Red Bull Racing Formula 1 cars.

With that, Marko hints that the cooperation between Red Bull and Honda goes beyond the Toro Rosso project: "We hope to make a significant step forward", added Marko about the hope for 2018. "We follow the development and halfway next year we take a decision. "So it seems that Red Bull regards Honda as a serious option for 2019, since Renault does not want to extend the contract that expires at the end of '19. Mercedes and Ferrari seem not interested in delivering engines to the big rival, leaving few options left.

The big chance is that Red Bull Racing will drive Japanese engines in 2019, Marko did not want to say. The formation from Milton Keynes seems to assume that Honda will make a big step forward next year. Otherwise they would not invest in the project and offer the facilities, because Toro Rosso is not important and big enough for that.

https://nl.motorsport.com/f1/news/samen ... so-984235/

carisi2k
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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The STR13 will essentially be a 12 month test program for the RB15 in 2019. I am looking forward to see any progress Honda makes and hopefully it will go well enough to beat Mclaren and Renault in 2018.

RonDennis
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:24 am
The STR13 will essentially be a 12 month test program for the RB15 in 2019. I am looking forward to see any progress Honda makes and hopefully it will go well enough to beat Mclaren and Renault in 2018.
Why do people even think Toro Rosso has a chance of beating McLaren and Renault. You must be delusional or completely blind. Toro Rosso has less money, less staff, less power, less facilities and average drivers. Just look at their current chassis, it's terrible.

carisi2k
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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RonDennis wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:15 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:24 am
The STR13 will essentially be a 12 month test program for the RB15 in 2019. I am looking forward to see any progress Honda makes and hopefully it will go well enough to beat Mclaren and Renault in 2018.
Why do people even think Toro Rosso has a chance of beating McLaren and Renault. You must be delusional or completely blind. Toro Rosso has less money, less staff, less power, less facilities and average drivers. Just look at their current chassis, it's terrible.
You sir are delusional for thinking the torro rosso chassis is bad. With the same engine as Renault they out performed them until carlos left for the Factory Renault team. All of Torro Rosso's problems were purely Renault related and nothing at all to do with the chassis,especially the last few races where the torro rosso could barely compete on equal terms due to Renault giving them spare parts for a power unit.

Torro Rosso are supported by Red Bull and that means they have more then enough money and know how from Red Bull to be more then capable of challenging McLaren and Renault if the Honda engine has made the gains being talked about. They get the red bull gearbox for nothing and probably the red bull rear end. James Key is a replacement option for Adrian Newey should he retire. The 2018 TR will be a test bench for when Red Bull have to move to Honda in 2019. So it is going to get a lot of development parts throughout 2018. Oh and they don't have to pay for engines in 2018 either.

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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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Lol

STR will fight with Sauber next year, despite their chassis. Sure they might come back through the field later in the year, IF the Honda power unit can deliver or get closer to Renault.

Also, you are assuming Renault will be standing still on engine dev and chassis dev which they wont I promise you that. The same for McLaren. STR wont be close to McLaren next year. I am pretty sure that is a given and I suspect Renault will be right there are well. I think they will be 2 of the top 5 times in 2018.
STR, back of the grid with Sauber

Webber2011
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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Gerhardsa wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:49 am
Lol

STR will fight with Sauber next year, despite their chassis. Sure they might come back through the field later in the year, IF the Honda power unit can deliver or get closer to Renault.

Also, you are assuming Renault will be standing still on engine dev and chassis dev which they wont I promise you that. The same for McLaren. STR wont be close to McLaren next year. I am pretty sure that is a given and I suspect Renault will be right there are well. I think they will be 2 of the top 5 times in 2018.
STR, back of the grid with Sauber
I'll very much look forward to revisiting this post in around 12 months 😉

carisi2k
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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Gerhardsa wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:49 am
Lol

STR will fight with Sauber next year, despite their chassis. Sure they might come back through the field later in the year, IF the Honda power unit can deliver or get closer to Renault.

Also, you are assuming Renault will be standing still on engine dev and chassis dev which they wont I promise you that. The same for McLaren. STR wont be close to McLaren next year. I am pretty sure that is a given and I suspect Renault will be right there are well. I think they will be 2 of the top 5 times in 2018.
STR, back of the grid with Sauber
Since when has Renault moved forward. They went backwards throughout 2017 and only the amazing Max and Dan in the RB13 allowed them to have 3 victories. You Mclaren fan boys will be in for a surprise next year when your team will be shown up for the fakes they are. Only Red Bull has gotten the Renault to victory lane and that isn't changing in 2018.

Torro Rosso on the other hand will have the full resources of Red Bull and Honda and the knowledge that 2018 has no pressure on them to achieve any thing because they have an inferior Honda engine.

McHonda
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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I'm a bit pessimistic about it to be honest. Sauber get a nice 2018 Ferrari unit and an incredibly talented driver next year. STR get a worse engine and the same drivers. It's not looking great to be honest. The previous regulations chassis was impressive considering budget but I can't say the same for this one so far but maybe they'll improve over the winter and impress but it's a big ask.

No chance they get near McLaren and especially Alonso though. He was beating them comfortably by seasons end with a worse engine so having a better one this time is hardly going to send him backwards. Force India and their talented drivers will have trouble beating McLaren never mind Toro Rosso and their underwhelming line up.

Same for Renault, they're getting better all the time,they've got better drivers,better engine,better chassis and win every time they enter so aiming for them is a bit much for STR imo.

Sauber and Haas have to be the target and to be honest they'll have the weakest driver line up and the weakest engine so it'll have to be one hell of a car for Toro Rosso to come out on top but I think 8th is possible if everything goes to plan. Above that would depend on what happens at Williams driver wise but maybe if it's an underwhelming line-up then 7th is possible again but even with Verstappen and Sainz Jr pushing development it would be a big ask.

On the Honda side I'm just hoping they can show enough to convince Red Bull or even Williams to give them a crack for 2019 but perhaps that's a year too soon.

RonDennis
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:25 am
RonDennis wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:15 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:24 am
The STR13 will essentially be a 12 month test program for the RB15 in 2019. I am looking forward to see any progress Honda makes and hopefully it will go well enough to beat Mclaren and Renault in 2018.
Why do people even think Toro Rosso has a chance of beating McLaren and Renault. You must be delusional or completely blind. Toro Rosso has less money, less staff, less power, less facilities and average drivers. Just look at their current chassis, it's terrible.
You sir are delusional for thinking the torro rosso chassis is bad. With the same engine as Renault they out performed them until carlos left for the Factory Renault team. All of Torro Rosso's problems were purely Renault related and nothing at all to do with the chassis,especially the last few races where the torro rosso could barely compete on equal terms due to Renault giving them spare parts for a power unit.

Torro Rosso are supported by Red Bull and that means they have more then enough money and know how from Red Bull to be more then capable of challenging McLaren and Renault if the Honda engine has made the gains being talked about. They get the red bull gearbox for nothing and probably the red bull rear end. James Key is a replacement option for Adrian Newey should he retire. The 2018 TR will be a test bench for when Red Bull have to move to Honda in 2019. So it is going to get a lot of development parts throughout 2018. Oh and they don't have to pay for engines in 2018 either.
You can't even spell Toro Rosso right, which proves my point that you know nothing. You just think that you can just exchange parts between teams, if that was the case Toro Rosso would be right there with Red Bull, wouldn't they, since they were running exactly the same engines. James Key is a replacement option for Adrian Newey? So what? Vandoorne is a replacement option for Alonso as a first driver, that doesn't make him as good. Toro Rosso even admitted that their development was poor, even with the magical James Key. Toro Rosso operates at a smaller budget and they don't have more then enough money to do whatever they want, even with Red Bull backing.
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:52 am
Gerhardsa wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:49 am
Lol

STR will fight with Sauber next year, despite their chassis. Sure they might come back through the field later in the year, IF the Honda power unit can deliver or get closer to Renault.

Also, you are assuming Renault will be standing still on engine dev and chassis dev which they wont I promise you that. The same for McLaren. STR wont be close to McLaren next year. I am pretty sure that is a given and I suspect Renault will be right there are well. I think they will be 2 of the top 5 times in 2018.
STR, back of the grid with Sauber
Since when has Renault moved forward. They went backwards throughout 2017 and only the amazing Max and Dan in the RB13 allowed them to have 3 victories. You Mclaren fan boys will be in for a surprise next year when your team will be shown up for the fakes they are. Only Red Bull has gotten the Renault to victory lane and that isn't changing in 2018.

Torro Rosso on the other hand will have the full resources of Red Bull and Honda and the knowledge that 2018 has no pressure on them to achieve any thing because they have an inferior Honda engine.
Are you seriously asking when Renault has moved forward? They were the 4th fastest team in Abu Dhabi, while Toro Rosso was fighting with Sauber. Delusional fanboy.

carisi2k
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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What does Abu Dhabi prove? Force India had nothing to fight for after already wrapping up fourth in the constructors championship. Renault obviously trying to save face and pass Toro rosso for 6th brought some upgrades while Toro rosso could barely even start the race because of the lack of available engine parts available from Renault. When they could run they were in an engine mode so low that even Sauber's 2016 Ferrari units had more power.

Meanwhile Daniel Ricciardo's rather new Renault engine blew up after 20 laps. This cost him 4th place in the championship and Renault forgot to put Carlos Sainz wheel on properly as well. Oh and lets not forget all those exploding Renault's in Mexico and Brazil and Daniels engine in the USA.

In those last 4 races only one Honda retirement was due to a power unit. Renault had 8 power unit failures.

So where exactly is the progress?

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Gerhardsa
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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Webber2011 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:07 am
Gerhardsa wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:49 am
Lol

STR will fight with Sauber next year, despite their chassis. Sure they might come back through the field later in the year, IF the Honda power unit can deliver or get closer to Renault.

Also, you are assuming Renault will be standing still on engine dev and chassis dev which they wont I promise you that. The same for McLaren. STR wont be close to McLaren next year. I am pretty sure that is a given and I suspect Renault will be right there are well. I think they will be 2 of the top 5 times in 2018.
STR, back of the grid with Sauber
I'll very much look forward to revisiting this post in around 12 months 😉
Make a note of it. :lol:

And @carisi2k
Grow up... You labeling everyone that contradicts you a this or that "fanboy" is childlike behavior.

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HPD
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Re: Toro Rosso STR13 Speculation Thread

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McHonda wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:56 am
I'm a bit pessimistic about it to be honest. Sauber get a nice 2018 Ferrari unit and an incredibly talented driver next year. STR get a worse engine and the same drivers. It's not looking great to be honest. The previous regulations chassis was impressive considering budget but I can't say the same for this one so far but maybe they'll improve over the winter and impress but it's a big ask.

No chance they get near McLaren and especially Alonso though. He was beating them comfortably by seasons end with a worse engine so having a better one this time is hardly going to send him backwards. Force India and their talented drivers will have trouble beating McLaren never mind Toro Rosso and their underwhelming line up.

Same for Renault, they're getting better all the time,they've got better drivers,better engine,better chassis and win every time they enter so aiming for them is a bit much for STR imo.

Sauber and Haas have to be the target and to be honest they'll have the weakest driver line up and the weakest engine so it'll have to be one hell of a car for Toro Rosso to come out on top but I think 8th is possible if everything goes to plan. Above that would depend on what happens at Williams driver wise but maybe if it's an underwhelming line-up then 7th is possible again but even with Verstappen and Sainz Jr pushing development it would be a big ask.

On the Honda side I'm just hoping they can show enough to convince Red Bull or even Williams to give them a crack for 2019 but perhaps that's a year too soon.
A good honest comment to read.

It's true ... beating Renault or Mclaren is out of the game by 2018. However, I would like to be very close to them, both in qualifying and in the race. This would be a good victory for TR and for Honda.