Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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Thunder
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Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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This is the speculation Thread about the 2020 Red Bull RB16. Rumors, articles, ideas and fantasies about the car can be posted here. Once the car gets officially launched, this thread will be closed and discussion continues in the official Thread.
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godlameroso
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We know the gap to Mercedes on average was .3 seconds. That is the gap that needs to be closed down, which will be hard because it will have to be those .3 in addition to whatever Mercedes can come up with. Even if the gap isn't overcome, even if it's just shortened by a tenth and a half, that may give Verstappen enough to fight for the WDC if he plays his cards right. If Ferrari is up there challenging for wins as well it could put more pressure on Mercedes, we saw what happened after the summer break, what happened in Germany as well. So they could take points off and both help or hurt RB's chances.

Speculating about the actual car itself, it's hard to see it as being any more than an evolution of this year's car. The biggest most obvious change would likely be the bargeboard and side pods, the engine cover more shrink wrapped around the power unit foot print. I'm sure Honda will improve the packaging yet again, and Red Bull will likely take advantage of every centimeter Honda manages to trim to improve the aero. Along with improvements in reliability and power it means that they may not have to waste any GPs due to reliability concerns, or perhaps force Mercedes hand if Honda takes a big step. That's likely wishful thinking, realistically there is a good amount of scope to improve the car, and I imagine that having tasted victory makes the motivation that much greater, which could be good motivation to continue the path.

Mercedes is still mighty, and next year their car will still be the one to beat. I imagine Ferrari will be much stronger as well, so there will be a real battle to win next year, it is also the last year of these freak mobiles. Will be interesting to see track records be broken one more time.

With 5 wins and consistent podiums due to good reliability a serious challenge can be made. The additional power units, and the time it took to properly calibrate them led to 3 retirements, there were 5 more podiums that could have been picked up this season which could have changed the standings at least putting Verstappen closer to or ahead of Bottas. Knowing this, and the scope for improvement from the car, there is a real chance. Again we won't know, even after testing we won't know the true pecking order, we can get a rough idea of where the cars are in general but the performance is so close that it's incredibly easy to hide the true relative performance.

I honestly hope that Mercedes only improves enough that it allows both RB and Ferrari to challenge them from time to time. The last half of this season and the closely fought races have been incredibly entertaining.
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Maplesoup
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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I think Red bull have already talked about packaging for next year this year. I remember near the start of the year they were saying they've already identified areas where the packaging can be improved. So maybe we should expect that Red bull may of already estimated that it has caught up with Mercedes based on package improvements and from here it will just be who can gain the most rather than red bull having to catch up (hypothetical i know).

What will be interesting is how Honda handle packaging the cooling elements. I believe at the beginning of the year they realized that they had been too aggressive, will be interesting to see what the performance will be like in the low altitude and hot conditions that have seen the Merc struggle so much this year if they return to that aggressive packaging again next year.

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bigblue
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Auto-translate
According to Red Bull's bill, the performance deficit has shrunk to Mercedes in the racing trim in the single-digit horsepower range. Only Ferrari have more bums. Ex-partner Renault is last.
Actually it gets weirder from there, Abiteboul claims in race trim the order is Ferrari, Renault, Honda, Mercedes !

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Wouter
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Thanks @Alexf1 for the article!

Another quote from AMuS translated:

RB16 a big evolution

Red Bull knows that they still have a lot of work to do in order to catch up with Mercedes in all their relationships. No team understands the tires so well. No team makes so few mistakes. No team is as constant as the world champions. Red Bull's achievements are still too variable. 2019 was followed by a decent season start a high before the summer break, a low after the summer break and a final high.

Basic problem of Melbourne

The engineers were never able to eradicate the RB15's basic problem. The aerodynamics platform is not as stable as Mercedes. The engineers practice self-criticism: "We are still too susceptible to wind and temperature." These are two construction sites that one wants to clear out with the RB16.

The wing regulations for 2019 caught Red Bull on the wrong foot. The cars in front of the RB15 had always built on a strong front wing, which directed the air so targeted backwards and vortex toss that the underbody was sealed. Red Bull entered new territory with the simplified wings.
The engineers promise a big evolution. Next year, Red Bull must be capable of winning from the start. "Then it should be a great season. There could be a tight fight between Mercedes, Ferrari and us. "

But the Milton Keynes team does not just dream of the World Drivers' Championship. Red Bull also wants to race for first place in the Constructors' World Championship. It takes a second strong driver next Verstappen. Alexander Albon needs to take a step in 2020. By 2019, Red Bull had been a one-man team for too long. Pierre Gasly, who was replaced at the middle of the season, could not cope with the sharp handling of the RB15 at all. That only managed Verstappen.

Bill
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These a good article especially after Abu Dhabi some claimed Redbull has a great chassis only let down by the pu

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godlameroso
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The RB is not a perfect chassis, the power unit is the best Honda has ever made in F1, and has made noticeable steps this year, they probably exceeded their own expectations. That said, they are still behind Mercedes, and further steps are coming to further close the gap. I have full faith that the RB16 will be a nice step forward, will it be enough, I don't know.
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Bill
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If you read the full article from amus it says Honda pu is within single digits hp away from Mercedes from what I can deduce Honda has already caught Mercedes or pass them after what we saw from Brazil. Amus is a little biased towards merc. In fact Honda did produce a graph that effectively says they had matched Mercedes for so really they is no point speculating we got the answer from the horses mouth.

Cyril thinks his engine is second best he put Mercedes dead last.Toto on the other hand put Mercedes 2nd Renault last so really to extent everyone see what they want to see.

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Bill wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:22 am
If you read the full article from amus it says Honda pu is within single digits hp away from Mercedes from what I can deduce Honda has already caught Mercedes or pass them after what we saw from Brazil. Amus is a little biased towards merc. In fact Honda did produce a graph that effectively says they had matched Mercedes for so really they is no point speculating we got the answer from the horses mouth.

Cyril thinks his engine is second best he put Mercedes dead last.Toto on the other hand put Mercedes 2nd Renault last so really to extent everyone see what they want to see.
It's absurd to thing Mercedes lost it's edge just like that. Their engine is still the benchmark, the other Mercedes teams weren't complaining about power.

About the RB16, I think that the rear end of the car lacked a lot of little winglets and features that were on other cars. I sincerely think that now that they more or less get the new regulations they can add a lot of parts that weren't on the car this year. If we look at the RB15 vs the Mercedes, Mercedes did more detail work around the rear of the car than RB did. Particularly the rear wing end plates.
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Bill
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Nobody ever said Mercedes lost its edge.the moral of the story is others have matched them specifically Honda or slightly exceeded them in the case of Ferrari even Mercedes acknowledges that.

In high altitude they is no question Honda is a better pu than Mercedes.these thing have been discussed for ever .james Allison was interviewed in Brazil he pretty much reiterate that fact.As for their costumer Perez was complaining about lack power in Brazil.

Ferrari has the biggest budget in power unit development.Honda has also increased its budget significantly so it's not inconceivable that others can do a better jop . Just because Mercedes was the benchmark in the past doesn't mean they would be so for all of eternity.

Singapore2008
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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:05 am
Bill wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:22 am
...
It's absurd to thing Mercedes lost it's edge just like that. Their engine is still the benchmark, the other Mercedes teams weren't complaining about power.

About the RB16, I think that the rear end of the car lacked a lot of little winglets and features that were on other cars. I sincerely think that now that they more or less get the new regulations they can add a lot of parts that weren't on the car this year. If we look at the RB15 vs the Mercedes, Mercedes did more detail work around the rear of the car than RB did. Particularly the rear wing end plates.
I think that is part of their design-philosophy. Build you car as smooth as possible. I always believed that if all those winglets and other drag-increasing features are necessary something else has gone wrong. You want to guide the airflow just were you want it, with as little effort as possible.

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Singapore2008 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:39 am
I think that is part of their design-philosophy. Build you car as smooth as possible. I always believed that if all those winglets and other drag-increasing features are necessary something else has gone wrong. You want to guide the airflow just were you want it, with as little effort as possible.
Not really, if you look at simulations/predictions whacking on the downforce does more for lap-time than reducing drag (for most circuits).
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:42 am
Singapore2008 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:39 am
I think that is part of their design-philosophy. Build you car as smooth as possible. I always believed that if all those winglets and other drag-increasing features are necessary something else has gone wrong. You want to guide the airflow just were you want it, with as little effort as possible.
Not really, if you look at simulations/predictions whacking on the downforce does more for lap-time than reducing drag (for most circuits).
That's true but the issue of being overtaken on the straights means that there is a compromise to be found. It appears that the line between enough downforce for decent lap times and too much drag giving poor top speed, is a fine one.
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Singapore2008
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Re: Red Bull RB16 Speculation Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:42 am
Singapore2008 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:39 am
I think that is part of their design-philosophy. Build you car as smooth as possible. I always believed that if all those winglets and other drag-increasing features are necessary something else has gone wrong. You want to guide the airflow just were you want it, with as little effort as possible.
Not really, if you look at simulations/predictions whacking on the downforce does more for lap-time than reducing drag (for most circuits).
No, that's not what I was trying to say. I will try again...

I think we agree that a car needs as much downforce as possible with as less drag as possible. I believe that adding more and more winglets (like on top of the sidepods of last years McLaren) is not the best way to go. It means you have to redirect the airflow in an (dragwise) expensive way. It seems to me the Red Bull engineers try to solve there problems with as little winglets etc. as possible. Preferably by FW en bargeboard changes.