McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
kfrantzios
kfrantzios
40
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:19 pm
Location: Greece

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:34 pm
Was their front end weakness only related to the front wing not creating enough downforce or lack of mechanical grip... Is it possible that their front end problems were located at the rear of the car?

The type of wing that Mclaren was using was capable (from a concept perspective) of creating downforce, as showed by the likes of Ferrari... The problem for Mclaren last year could have been that the rear of car couldn’t create more than downforce at a given drag target and therefore the front wing was setup in a way to maintain the balance in the car (and therefore lack of front of end grip).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The front wing on it's own is more than capable to generate enough downforce. Its when you factor in balance, flow conditioning and suspension that problems arise and compromises must be made. I believe you are correct on this one.

Emag
Emag
46
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

kfrantzios wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:16 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:34 pm
Was their front end weakness only related to the front wing not creating enough downforce or lack of mechanical grip... Is it possible that their front end problems were located at the rear of the car?

The type of wing that Mclaren was using was capable (from a concept perspective) of creating downforce, as showed by the likes of Ferrari... The problem for Mclaren last year could have been that the rear of car couldn’t create more than downforce at a given drag target and therefore the front wing was setup in a way to maintain the balance in the car (and therefore lack of front of end grip).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The front wing on it's own is more than capable to generate enough downforce. Its when you factor in balance, flow conditioning and suspension that problems arise and compromises must be made. I believe you are correct on this one.
But they were particularly bad in slow corners. Downforce doesn't help much in those.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
480
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Sainz said it "looks muscular" so I'm expecting a shrink wrapped Engine cover. The nostril-ike intake could be described as muscular too I suppose.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

User avatar
ME4ME
173
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Emag wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:52 pm

But they were particularly bad in slow corners. Downforce doesn't help much in those.
Did you think that through? Df helps lots in slow corners.

User avatar
strad
271
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Image
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

trinidefender
trinidefender
333
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:37 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

ME4ME wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:44 pm
Emag wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:52 pm

But they were particularly bad in slow corners. Downforce doesn't help much in those.
Did you think that through? Df helps lots in slow corners.
I think what they meant was that the downforce will be much lower in slow corners therefore the effect that a particular aero package will have will be lower in slow corners.

To add to that, car design and setup is a compromise between ideal geometry and Spring/damper setup for grip that a car has with no downforce, what people refer to as mechanical grip, and a car that runs with downforce.

A car design that has a very good and stable aero platform will many times suffer in lower speed corners simply because there isn't enough compliance for bumps and curbs. The 2011 and 2012 McLaren cars are good examples of this, watching them, they bumped and bounced all over the place all to maintain aero performance.

One of the secrets of the V8 era Red Bull cars dominance was that they were able to have great aero performance while still having a compliant ride. This was one of the things that P Prodromou brought to McLaren when he joined during the 2014 season, first evidenced by the drastic concept change in the front wing towards the end of the season of the 2014 McLaren car.

User avatar
godlameroso
432
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Emag wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:52 pm
kfrantzios wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:16 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:34 pm
Was their front end weakness only related to the front wing not creating enough downforce or lack of mechanical grip... Is it possible that their front end problems were located at the rear of the car?

The type of wing that Mclaren was using was capable (from a concept perspective) of creating downforce, as showed by the likes of Ferrari... The problem for Mclaren last year could have been that the rear of car couldn’t create more than downforce at a given drag target and therefore the front wing was setup in a way to maintain the balance in the car (and therefore lack of front of end grip).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The front wing on it's own is more than capable to generate enough downforce. Its when you factor in balance, flow conditioning and suspension that problems arise and compromises must be made. I believe you are correct on this one.
But they were particularly bad in slow corners. Downforce doesn't help much in those.
Yes it does. It helps more than if you don't have it that's for sure. Because you have the potential to gain more at slower speeds. The faster you are in the slowest corner the faster you are overall.

A 10kph difference at 300kmh is much smaller than a 10kph difference at 100kph. It's simple math, 10 is 1/10th of 100, 10 is 1/30th of 300. If you gain 1/10th 10 times you gain a second. If you gain 1/30th 10 times you gain a third of a second. Which one would you rather have? The answer is the advantage in the low speed corner of course.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

User avatar
godlameroso
432
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:00 pm
Sainz said it "looks muscular" so I'm expecting a shrink wrapped Engine cover. The nostril-ike intake could be described as muscular too I suppose.
Muscular means shrink wrapped like the Mercedes. Will be interesting to see what they can come up with.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

f1rules
f1rules
355
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:34 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Well i find AS article a bit. Even if they succeded in adding load, i quess it would have more to do with changes to the front or? The last 1/3 just eat what the front 2/3 serve?

According to the many reports last year a weak front end was the main issue. so i expect most changes there. Probably new front sus layout, and then the bigger air intake which will result in more agressive side pods, i think maybe theyll change the nosecone also, to a more conventional one maybe even merc style. And then refinements here and there, maybe a shrinked engine cover and smaller hotair outlets
Last edited by f1rules on Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

the EDGE
the EDGE
77
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:17 am
Emag wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:52 pm
kfrantzios wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:16 pm

The front wing on it's own is more than capable to generate enough downforce. Its when you factor in balance, flow conditioning and suspension that problems arise and compromises must be made. I believe you are correct on this one.
But they were particularly bad in slow corners. Downforce doesn't help much in those.
Yes it does. It helps more than if you don't have it that's for sure. Because you have the potential to gain more at slower speeds. The faster you are in the slowest corner the faster you are overall.

A 10kph difference at 300kmh is much smaller than a 10kph difference at 100kph. It's simple math, 10 is 1/10th of 100, 10 is 1/30th of 300. If you gain 1/10th 10 times you gain a second. If you gain 1/30th 10 times you gain a third of a second. Which one would you rather have? The answer is the advantage in the low speed corner of course.
If car A travels for 1 hour at 40 miles per hour and car B the same at 30 miles per hours, at the end car A will be 10 miles ahead

The same distance ahead as if car A had travelled at 310 miles per hour for an hour and car B at 300 miles per hour

That’s why Ferrari were able to win over a single lap by making up difference in straight line speed but would fall back in the race

The advantage of greater low speed cornering are a higher exit speed that can be carried over down the straight, better tyre wear and ability to overtake coming out of the corner.

Emag
Emag
46
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

If you base the downforce equation to the drag equation, then the amount of force coming from the air would be proportional with half of the velocity squared. So, there should be very little force on low speeds, and very high on high speeds. I can't really find an equation to calculate downforce, because it is a very complex thing that depends on too many variables, however it shouldn't be too different to the drag equation as they are principally the same thing (the amount of force the air exerts on an object). That's why I said that at low speed corners, more specifically hairpins, there isn't that much downforce being generated to help with the turn-in. Therefore mechanical grip (tires + suspension) take over to try and make the car turn as much as possible without dropping the speed. Obviously tires are the same for everyone, however the way the car handles the tire is not. Because that is controlled by the suspension. Hence coming to my point. In order to fix their low-speed deficiencies they would have to make some sort of adjustment to their front-suspension design (the rear helps too, however I am assuming they have found a good compromise there considering they carried over the design from 2018).

An example on how the front suspension might help on low-speed corners is by "pushing" down the tire on which most of the load is focused and releasing the other one. In a left hairpin, you might want to push down on the front-left tire and release the front right a bit, since most of the load will be transfered to the left, and that's the side that needs more grip.

f1rules
f1rules
355
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:34 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Shared on autosport forum, seem to be from marca, key again mention the front being the weak part

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/54191/ja ... ntial.html

Ground Effect
Ground Effect
133
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:39 am

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

I think the Marca article referring to not much or noticeable changes at the front, would be to the untrained eye. I’d expect significant work has been done on the front suspension, as they carried out various tests during FP’s last year. I’m a bit surprised the article didn’t discuss bargeboards development. I seem to vaguely remember an interview Key did with Sky at Barcelona, where he mentioned the bargeboards area as one where a fair bit of gains can be found.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

Emag
Emag
46
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:19 pm
I think the Marca article referring to not much or noticeable changes at the front, would be to the untrained eye. I’d expect significant work has been done on the front suspension, as they carried out various tests during FP’s last year. I’m a bit surprised the article didn’t discuss bargeboards development. I seem to vaguely remember an interview Key did with Sky at Barcelona, where he mentioned the bargeboards area as one where a fair bit of gains can be found.
Since they said that a lot of work has been made to the rear of the car, then I am assuming changes have been made to the bargeboards as well, because they are very important in managing the air to the rear. Quite powerful devices in the current formula. Diverting the tire wake and securing as much clean air for the rear-end (diffuser) is very important for these cars.

Emag
Emag
46
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Image

I found this from a journalist who works at Marca. That's what they believe will be the main focus point for McLaren this season. Forgive the bad translation.