Racing Point RP20

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Owen.C93
Owen.C93
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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OO7 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:27 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:42 pm
It was announced in April last year that RP would start using the Mercedes wind tunnel for 2020 car development. That explains why the car is so close to the W10, having likely the same low rake philosophy and also their trick suspension front and back. The low rake philosophy may aid in the 2021 concept seeing that the regulations call for more of a design that would seem to encourage venturi effects "sealing" the floor to the ground.

Article below quotes Green using the MB wind tunnel since May.
https://f1i.com/news/368132-racing-poin ... clone.html
I don't understand the relationship between Racing Point using the same wind-tunnel as Mercedes and the RP20 looking like a clone of the W10?
Picking up old scale model parts from the recycling bin ;)

But one advantage is they know Mercedes had good correlation with that design in the wind tunnel which is another plus that many teams seem to struggle with every year.

The carry over suspension and limited resources would have been a much bigger factor of course.
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

OO7
OO7
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Owen.C93 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:41 pm
Picking up old scale model parts from the recycling bin ;)

But one advantage is they know Mercedes had good correlation with that design in the wind tunnel which is another plus that many teams seem to struggle with every year.

The carry over suspension and limited resources would have been a much bigger factor of course.
:lol:

You make a very good point about correlation though Owen.

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ispano6
297
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Location: my playseat

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

OO7 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:27 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:42 pm
It was announced in April last year that RP would start using the Mercedes wind tunnel for 2020 car development. That explains why the car is so close to the W10, having likely the same low rake philosophy and also their trick suspension front and back. The low rake philosophy may aid in the 2021 concept seeing that the regulations call for more of a design that would seem to encourage venturi effects "sealing" the floor to the ground.

Article below quotes Green using the MB wind tunnel since May.
https://f1i.com/news/368132-racing-poin ... clone.html
I don't understand the relationship between Racing Point using the same wind-tunnel as Mercedes and the RP20 looking like a clone of the W10?
Imagine RP using their own or separate wind tunnel with correlation issues. Your data may skew from reality. Using the same wind tunnel allows you to more accurately model your assumptions based on what has already been developed, tested, and proven on track. The question is how quickly RP personal were able to generate 3d models of the W10 as it was being developed throughout the year and how much access they had to 2020 customer parts early on. The efficacy of the W10 and RP20s aero is linked to the wind tunnel set up in which it was modeled.

bosyber
bosyber
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Translated (manually by me - neither is my main language, though I live in DE, ) quote from AMuS on Racing Points new car
Because this time [the team] took [not just parts, but] the whole concept, the engineers had to reduce the risk on the[eir] construction site as much as possible. Therefore they kept as close to the original as possible. That similarity will dissapear step by step. In development Racing Point has to go their own routes. Then there are no draft models left. The Mercedes W10 is in a museum.
The article makes the point quite well that RP has been adapting and improving existing concepts from others with a lot of success (like their cobra nose, which came after Sauber's concept the year before), and that this is just a more elaborate case of this, due to being at a dead end high-rake wise given the Merc. gearbox/suspension pickup points, and now having the money and staff to change things up - but in the last year of these regulations, and now using Merc' windtunnel, going all in with that then simply being the least risky way to go (before updating from their own ideas/understanding).

Does read like it's the teams story, with the magazine/writer seemingly not finding it too farfetched, but as said, it is a compelling and hopeful narative. And we'll soon know how true it is by they way the car develops, I suppose.

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 am
Location: Hull

Re: Racing Point RP20

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ringo wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:48 pm
the cars arent exactly the same. they look very close but they arent.

the RP car is a copy yes but not an exact copy.

enough technology is out there to copy the mercedes car when its in the pitlane or on display somewhere or even in parc ferme.
3 scanners exist that can copy the car to a milimeter in about 3 minutes. Its not dificult really.
what i think happened is that merceses let their W10 be scanned by racing point.
this may have happened during post seasen testing.
I would suggest that there needed to be slight changes to keep it JUST different enough to stop the FIA having to step in.

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Any bets on an Australia protest?

Especially if they qualify top 10...

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PlatinumZealot
521
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Andy Green is very coy how the parts originated. The nose for one does not look like anbexact copy but a slightly slimmer part. There are other dead carbon copies like the brake ducts (allowed as customer parts?), front wing and bargeboards. Obviously purchased from Mercedes but Mr. Green wont confirm nor deny.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..
Online Stress Therapy. #77 is mediocre. W12 is the fastest car. Repeat x 1,000

DeathPig
DeathPig
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Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:26 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

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I believe they're safe as long as the parts are allowed to be purchased. People might see it as being un-sportsmanlike, but hey, you do what you gotta to win and if it's within the rules, it's within the rules.

ajprice
ajprice
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

Owen.C93 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:41 pm
OO7 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:27 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:42 pm
It was announced in April last year that RP would start using the Mercedes wind tunnel for 2020 car development. That explains why the car is so close to the W10, having likely the same low rake philosophy and also their trick suspension front and back. The low rake philosophy may aid in the 2021 concept seeing that the regulations call for more of a design that would seem to encourage venturi effects "sealing" the floor to the ground.

Article below quotes Green using the MB wind tunnel since May.
https://f1i.com/news/368132-racing-poin ... clone.html
I don't understand the relationship between Racing Point using the same wind-tunnel as Mercedes and the RP20 looking like a clone of the W10?
Picking up old scale model parts from the recycling bin ;)

But one advantage is they know Mercedes had good correlation with that design in the wind tunnel which is another plus that many teams seem to struggle with every year.

The carry over suspension and limited resources would have been a much bigger factor of course.
Toto: "Lance, I have a present for you. Here's a very accurate scale model of a W10, from us to you. As a completely unrelated gift, here's a handheld 3D scanner."

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PlatinumZealot
521
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Perhaps they extracted the 3D model from codemasters F1 2019. :lol:
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..
Online Stress Therapy. #77 is mediocre. W12 is the fastest car. Repeat x 1,000

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Racer X
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Is Force India really going to have an update for Melbourne?
I wonder if its an Update Mercedes didnt finish in time for Abu Dabi and so they just went ahead and passed that along too...... :shock:
RedBull Racing MAX//PEREZ

dtro
dtro
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Racer X wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:08 am
Is Force India really going to have an update for Melbourne?
I wonder if its an Update Mercedes didnt finish in time for Abu Dabi and so they just went ahead and passed that along too...... :shock:
James Allison did imply the W10 had room for development in a recent video comparing the W11 to the W10 :shock:
Wouldn't be shocked if RP saw the same room... the one they do the design work in Brackley

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Racer X wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:08 am
Is Force India really going to have an update for Melbourne?
I wonder if its an Update Mercedes didnt finish in time for Abu Dabi and so they just went ahead and passed that along too...... :shock:
I wonder if Racing Point is really able to make the mechanical parts work. Mercedes put in a lot of effort to create a really tight rear end, far beyond the capabilities of what a Racing Point could do themselves.

They'll probably find a lot of time in the season making the whole package work
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

rccrdc
rccrdc
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:41 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

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Technical director said one of the reason why they followed this way is because they are constrained by the Mercedes gearbox which is designed for low rake.

Xavi_F1
Xavi_F1
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Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:34 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

wesley123 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:44 am
Racer X wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:08 am
Is Force India really going to have an update for Melbourne?
I wonder if its an Update Mercedes didnt finish in time for Abu Dabi and so they just went ahead and passed that along too...... :shock:
I wonder if Racing Point is really able to make the mechanical parts work. Mercedes put in a lot of effort to create a really tight rear end, far beyond the capabilities of what a Racing Point could do themselves.

They'll probably find a lot of time in the season making the whole package work
I think this is the first time that Racing Point (previously FI) have ever used Brembo brakes.

I think they've switched to Brembo this year as it is what Mercedes uses and it'll be better for their collaboration.

Can anyone confirm this?