Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89
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Block in developments to save costs

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I thought it might be useful to have a topic to discuss the measures with regards to blocks in developments. So far not a lot details are know, but please feel free to discuss the implications on the pecking order (such as locking in advantages) and share info you can find.
Last edited by Pyrone89 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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Pyrone89
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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So far I have read, without them providing details, about:

1. 2021 next gen regulations become 2022 (but unclear if the DAS ban still starts in 2021 or if that is also postponed, which would be counterintuitive as they take these measures to save costs, and a DAS spending battle is the opposite)
2. Ban on development of 2022 cars until february 2021 (how are they going to police that?)
3. Financial regulations still go ahead in 2021 as planned
4. Chassis development is frozen, but unclear is what is exactly defined as the chassis. This is likely a very big area of concern for teams that are behind as they cant catch up through chassis changes such as a narrower nose.
5. Development freeze on other parts is beimg discussed. Same applies as to 4: that would lock in advantages and makes it almost impossible to catch up. So might as well hand out the next 2 championship thropies if you do that.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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RZS10
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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The 'DAS ban' or rather the more specific wording regarding steering is, as it stands, part of the 2021 (now 2022) tech regulations. It wasn't done via TD for 2021 so DAS will be allowed as long as they use the old tech. regulations (unless it gets banned after a protest, of course).

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godlameroso
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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izzy
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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The basic chassis as in tub has been homologated hasn't it, so that's fixed, but they can develop the aero as normal during a season

I read they were going to discuss freezing more, but i don't see it being possible to police it. They just don't have any real data for now, is their problem

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm
Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.
Well that's what Trump wants, anyway. If people keep dying at the current rate then we'll be having this discussion until the mid-summer at least.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Dr. Acula
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm
Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.
Well the problem is even if the situation gets better, the measures against the virus need to stay in place for some time. South Korea lifted quarantines and stuff initially when they saw the first drop in the number of infected people. Guess what happend, the number immediatly got up again.
So the measures have to stay in place until the numbers of infected got very low and that can take quite some time.
What propably will happen especially in bigger countries is that curfews and stuff will be lifted regionaly instead of in the whole country or state at once.

At the moment the first race still in the calender is Canada anyway. So there will be no race before mid june, no matter how fast the situation will improve.

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Big Tea
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm
Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.

I think that is very, very optimistic. Even if some of the earliest places affected are looking better in 3 weeks it is unlikely those who were 'cleared' would want to travel for a few weeks after that even if allowed. Getting everyone to the far east in such a short time would be a huge effort when you consider the number of people (including marshals) and kit that would need to be moved and facilitated. Airlines and things like hospitality etc would have been closed down for maybe 2 months prior so would not have a running start, and more importantly, I believe that once movement is resumed, there will be a re emergence of Covid19, or one of its mutations. People who have had it mixing with those who have not too soon would be a lethal brew


Edit,
But I hope you are right
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

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Blackout
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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We already have topics for this;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28819
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28909
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:15 pm
So far I have read, without them providing details, about:

1. 2021 next gen regulations become 2022 (but unclear if the DAS ban still starts in 2021 or if that is also postponed, which would be counterintuitive as they take these measures to save costs, and a DAS spending battle is the opposite)
2. Ban on development of 2022 cars until february 2021 (how are they going to police that?)
3. Financial regulations still go ahead in 2021 as planned
4. Chassis development is frozen, but unclear is what is exactly defined as the chassis. This is likely a very big area of concern for teams that are behind as they cant catch up through chassis changes such as a narrower nose.
5. Development freeze on other parts is beimg discussed. Same applies as to 4: that would lock in advantages and makes it almost impossible to catch up. So might as well hand out the next 2 championship thropies if you do that.
By "chassis" they only mean the surviving cell/the monocoque/the tub, not "the car minus the engine".
And the chassis is probably the most expensive part of the car after the engine so a freeze will make them save a lot of money and time.
They plan to freeze the gearbox too which is the third most costly part IMO. => a big amount of ressources and time saved
And same chassis = same fuel tank = a good amount of money and time saved.
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm
Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.
You're very optimistic.
IMO there will be no f1 season if we dont find a cure against this virus before may.
Last edited by Blackout on Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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henry
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm
Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.
What’s going to change to make that possible? Most countries of the world are in exponential case growth at this point. Only 2 things will stop the virus, herd immunity and/or a vaccine. It will slow down as its targets reduce and medical services will get better at handling its consequences. But 3 weeks?

Before we can expect any races the world will want to review what happens in China as they lift control measures. I doubt that review will be able to take place for many weeks. And in the meantime we will all have to work very hard to contain this contagion at a level that doesn’t collapse our health systems.

Meanwhile the teams like so many businesses around the world will be contemplating their future viability. I imagine the poorer teams will be eaking out the moneys earned last year. Anything that’s a variable cost will be looked at very closely. So developments that involve fixed cost resources may go ahead, anything that needs new investment may not. The team in the best position may be Red Bull, assuming their parent’s product is considered to be a foodstuff.

But who knows?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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godlameroso
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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Mostly to do with statistical records vs reality. The people who are recorded as infected are both the severe cases, and those who have passed the incubation phase. If the current trends show that it's in exponential growth, that is only a glimpse of how many contracted the disease and made it through the incubation phase which lasts roughly a week and as high as two.

This means the official record is slow compared to the true progression of this disease, where the recorded cases are half a million, the actual population of infected persons is much higher, likely in the 10's of millions. The effects of self isolation and social distancing won't be felt for another week or so. Which means likely in 2 weeks the disease will hit it's peak, then another 2-3 weeks for most people to recover, which would be right around late April.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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hollus
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Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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Just a reminder that there is another COVID thread. It could be nice to talk about rules/freeze implications here and about the virus itself there. No need to repeat the argument cycle here as well.
#justanidea
¡Puxa Esportin!

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Pyrone89
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Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Changed the topic title to make it clear it is not about Corona but about the cost saving measures.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

User avatar
Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Corona measures: block in developments

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:44 pm
We already have topics for this;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28819
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28909
Pyrone89 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:15 pm
So far I have read, without them providing details, about:

1. 2021 next gen regulations become 2022 (but unclear if the DAS ban still starts in 2021 or if that is also postponed, which would be counterintuitive as they take these measures to save costs, and a DAS spending battle is the opposite)
2. Ban on development of 2022 cars until february 2021 (how are they going to police that?)
3. Financial regulations still go ahead in 2021 as planned
4. Chassis development is frozen, but unclear is what is exactly defined as the chassis. This is likely a very big area of concern for teams that are behind as they cant catch up through chassis changes such as a narrower nose.
5. Development freeze on other parts is beimg discussed. Same applies as to 4: that would lock in advantages and makes it almost impossible to catch up. So might as well hand out the next 2 championship thropies if you do that.
By "chassis" they only mean the surviving cell/the monocoque/the tub, not "the car minus the engine".
And the chassis is probably the most expensive part of the car after the engine so a freeze will make them save a lot of money and time.
They plan to freeze the gearbox too which is the third most costly part IMO. => a big amount of ressources and time saved
And same chassis = same fuel tank = a good amount of money and time saved.
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:57 pm
Frankly I don't see this situation lasting for more than another 3 weeks. I expect things to go back to normal late April, so maybe the season starts in early May.
You're very optimistic.
IMO there will be no f1 season if we dont find a cure against this virus before may.
Would this prevent others from getting DAS and variable Ackermann, as these are housed in and on the monocoque
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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Blackout
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Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:12 am

Re: Block in developments to save costs

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:11 am
Would this prevent others from getting DAS and variable Ackermann, as these are housed in and on the monocoque
Probably. Same chassis, same rules, same mechanical parts => same steering IMO
According to Tost, "The chassis will be homologated. The mechanical parts too, such as the suspensions. The only thing that can be improved is the aerodynamics. That's the front wing, rear wing, body, sidepods, floor, diffuser and deflectors."
Is the cooling still part of the aerodynamics and can be changed in 2021?