Renault R24

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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Steven
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Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 5:32 pm
Location: Belgium

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This desing of their rear wings, and especially the end plates were already present at some grand prix in 2003.

About the yellow front wing end plates... well I would hope they did the same with the RWEPs, since I adore that white-yellow combination

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NickT
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:47 am
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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With the new rule, I expect Renault to suffer a bit in the first few races because of this engine problem, enhanced by the fact that they had to change concept and builded an engine that is based on the 2000 Supertec V10 @72º engine.
Not sure it will be that simple, Renaut have made massive steps forward over the last few years and all these lessons will be put into the new engine, I think you will find the only similarity between the two will be their bank angle of 72º. From a COG point of view it is cer
tainly a step backwards although much of it can be regained with the high level of ballast being used. However the 72º bank angle does balance very well so vibration will be hugely lowered which will ultimately inprove reliability of the whole car!
NickT

rodlamas
rodlamas
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:03 pm

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there´s no question about all you´ve said

but the thing is that reanult completly left the project of the supertec 2000 engine behind in order to develop the wide-angle engines.

So they had to revert techonology. I am almost finishing my degree in eletronic engineering, but i don´t know a lot about mechancins not even how those things have evoluted throughout the last couple of years, but as far as me and my knowledge can go, i think they will suffer a bit, as i think they cannot use the same principles.
"I only race to finisht first, because the second is the first looser" Ayrton Senna

elf
elf
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:32 am

Side Chimneys

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Firstly, this site is fantastic! Well done Tomba, CFDruss et al.

Well. I think the R24 is the most elegant F1 car released thus far - it's just pure eye-candy. Renault has optimised chassis package space to a degree that rivals that of the new McLaren, and together with logical, much improved, aerodynamics the R24 looks a winner. The change to a 72 degree engine config. seems to be a logical step too. Ok, to my questions:

Do side chimneys (ala FW26 and R24) offer the best return (cooling) vs aerodynamic penalty? And what are the aerodynamic penalties of having chimneys (+ the exit stream of post coolant air)?

What advantages does the implementation of 'shark grills' offer?

And why does Renault test the R24 with covered chimneys (see below)?

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Beostar
Beostar
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 6:08 pm
Location: Belgium

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I could try to answer your questions but there are ppl here more on top of aerodynamics than I am :) (read I'm more mechanical :) )

The advantages of shard grills is the fact that they produce extra cooling for the engine. cause the fast moving cold air will suck the warm air out.
Which kinda is the same with the chimneys. (happen to know this part cause I made a presentation on chimneys :) )
Because of fast moving low pressure air moving above a tube the air inside it (which is warme but doesn't have to be) will be sucked out.

I don't really think there is much penalty because of the exit stream but someone else will prolly help ya more on that :wink:

The R24 is VERY nice i must admint... looks fast. Btw are you sure it was a 72 degree engine? thought it was a 90° one. but prolly not sure..

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Beo
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Says it's 72deg. in Race Tech Mag too

Beostar
Beostar
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k thx :)

Really need to subscribe myself to that magazine.. Got 3 already so this one is missing my collection :)
"The track is mine you may have it when I'm done"
"First law of computer programming : The user is a complete idiot"
"Don't confuse luck with skill."

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Scuderia_Russ
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

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Yeh,brought it for the first time last week,and have just subcribed on-line.Shame it's only bi-monthly though!
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

scarbs
scarbs
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Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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Cooling solutions (chimneys, open ducts, grill etc) each provide a specific benefit, I doubt you could say one is best, as it needs to work with the res tof the aero concept. Any solutions will create drag and introduce some disruption to the flow around the car.
Chimneys can be placed quite far forward and work well close to a wing tip (i.e. Renault in 03) to pull out air from with in the sidepod. They tend to create a small outlet area. The flow tends t be thrown either side of the rear wing, this is good for rear wing performance, but at the cost of drag as the messy flow widens the cars aerodynamic envelope (cross section) . Renaults new solution creates a very divergent outlet duct, this in itself could act to pull more flow from the sidepod.
Jaguar\BAR flip up\Duct often works well under a winglet to pull flow from within the sidepod and can allow a very large opening, these tend to block the main airflow into the cokebottle shape ahead of the rear wheels, but usefully they send the flow quite close over the rear wheels
Ferrari (shark) grills. Mounted close to the radiator and far forward, they work well and can allow alarge outlet area. they need a swept sidepod shape to produce the low pressure effect to draw air from within the sidepod. Taking the messy flow inside the sidepods and ordering it neatly into the main flow over the bodywork, this runs into the duct formed by the rear wing and may lose some downforce but the tidy flow contained so closeto the body keeps the aero envelope small.

Reca
Reca
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Location: Monza, Italy

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I don’t totally agree with Beostar about the chimney. What he says is true for gills and holes but I believe that the chimney works more like a wing, a low aspect ratio wing exactly to exploit the tip vortex to extract hot air. The new design on the R24, more twisted, would be aimed to improve the vortex strength shifting the aero load towards the tip. The tip vortex from the winglet behind it, as Scarbs wrote, is a further help using a similar concept.

Beostar
Beostar
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there is my lack of aerodynamic knowledge :)

Its just based on the fact that I did a presentation couple of weeks ago about this HUGE solar chimney in australia and we did the experiment with blowing air over a plastic tube and the air actually was sucked out of the tube. Thats all I know. :) Although your way of explain is just as acceptable :)
"The track is mine you may have it when I'm done"
"First law of computer programming : The user is a complete idiot"
"Don't confuse luck with skill."

Irvingthien
Irvingthien
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:40 am

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Those cooling chimneys certainly look big on the sidepod. There must be heating problems for making such a small rear end. If i am a technical directir, i would certainly go for the shark grill, both have the same use of cooling.
My question is, wouldn't it be better if the Renault guys just leave a hole on the sidepods instead if a big chimney?

elf
elf
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 6:32 am

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Wow! Thx for the answers! I also checked out Scarbs' website and found a goldmine of interesting info.

Ok here's an interseting tid-bit - seems that Jaguar has ditched the exit ducts between the winglet and flip-up for the Valencia test R4:

Image
Image

I bet a similar modification will be made on the R5...[/img]

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has anyone found out why the R24's are running with their chimneys plugged??

akbar21881
akbar21881
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: bristol,uk

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just try to imagine how sleek the sidepods would be without those chimney!!it would looks fantastic..but if the plugged it,why don't they just remove it?