Red Bull RB5

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
ringo
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by ringo » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:38 am

I wonder if a part of their reliability issues has anything remotely related with the steep drive shaft angles than with the Renault engine itself. If you compare Renault's drive shaft angle its more horizontal. I guess the RBR designers wanted the gear box as low as possible to the ground so they jammed it down there then were forced to run the shafts angled upward toward the wheels.
Anyone can link some RBR rear views and Renault rear views for a comparison?
edit: not to worry, i got some here, notice the different drive shaft angles?
anything detrimental to running the shafts at a steep angle, or having the gear box parts so low to the ground? (could be the reason every time vettel runs a kerb he destroys the engine)

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BreezyRacer
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by BreezyRacer » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:34 am

Hey guys, here's an aero issue to ponder ..
Newey worked very hard to get the tail of the RB5 as low as possible to provide lots of very clean airflow to the rear wings and did a bang up job with it. Did all that go for naught when the DD diffuser was legalized? I propose that the high tail, as evidenced on the McLarens actually makes for a better situation when you have a DD diffuser because the car, in general is leaving a larger low pressure hole for the diffuser to feed. Just something I've been considering ..

Terrible3
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by Terrible3 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:04 pm

BreezyRacer wrote:Hey guys, here's an aero issue to ponder ..
Newey worked very hard to get the tail of the RB5 as low as possible to provide lots of very clean airflow to the rear wings and did a bang up job with it. Did all that go for naught when the DD diffuser was legalized?
I feel the same way. If the DD was banned I think the current championship standings would look a lot different... with redbull dominating.
ringo wrote:I wonder if a part of their reliability issues has anything remotely related with the steep drive shaft angles than with the Renault engine itself.
I don't think you can link the drive shaft angle directly for the failure of the Renault engines. The new Acura P1 car for example has a much more extreme drive shaft angle and that car is designed to last at least 12 hours (sebring, they are not racing at le mans currently). They are yet to suffer one engine problem ( i think).

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Britain Smith
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by Britain Smith » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:17 pm

I would venture to say that the driveshaft angle has no effect on the engine.

Now the CV joints and/or transmission is a different story.

-Britain

wesley123
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by wesley123 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:18 pm

Britain Smith wrote:I would venture to say that the driveshaft angle has no effect on the engine.

Now the CV joints and/or transmission is a different story.

-Britain
I personnaly think it is the cooling that is the problem, see how Newey took alot of pain to get the sidepods as small as possible while the Renault engine seems to need alot of cooling, see renaults sidepods, they are much larger.

And you guys need to stop crying about the DDD, it is done and leave it behind guys, i can cry about alot things too, like why Red Bull is playing that dirty? They let a car go too soon on purpose for i believe the 5th time this season, Webber tried to slam Barrichello off the track on purpose, i mean 'i didnt saw him' is plain bullshit when he is next to you. Red Bull needs to punished much harder the next time they make such action, it is making me sick.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

mstar
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by mstar » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:53 pm

i was wondering that too, the renault engine may need more cooling i guess at a place like monza will it be much of a problem??

wesley123
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by wesley123 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:39 pm

Monza is a bit hotter, the engine is on max throttle for like 80% of the lap, so i think it might be a problem.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

ESPImperium
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by ESPImperium » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:16 am

If i were Red Bull for Vettel, id put the 2 power races together on this engine, as going back to 2008s data, DC did nearly 1400km on that engine, but that was with the 2 engines rule.

Personally:

Used #1: BEL/SYN/BRA Practice
Used #2: ITA/JPN practices
New #7: BEL/ITA/SYN FP3, Quali & Race
New #8: JPN/BRA/UAE FP3, Quali & Race

That leaves Used #2 as a spare for a FP3, Quali & Race if need be, and then New #7 can be used for Fridays then after.

Manageable, but a bloody pain in the backside to manage.

Webber, he has plenty of engines remaining, 6 i think, and if his one that was swapped out after FP3 at Spa can have the spring sorted id make that 7 engines he has to choose from, but again only one new one.

The only person in worse place thaneither Red Bull driver id Bob Kubica.

Im gona spend some time tomorrow re doing all my engine data, excluding Friday performances so my data will more accurate. Altho for Williams it will be totally accurate as they give out the engine serial on their web site.

mstar
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by mstar » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:22 pm

you discounting the whole problem of changing engines in the back its not a quick process and when set-up issues have to be done as well it can prove a nightmare to manage! especially when changing from one FP to another (FP2/qualy)

ISLAMATRON
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by ISLAMATRON » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:51 pm

The teams usually change the engines between FP3 & qually anyway. They can do so without penalty.

ESPI... the teams would want a fresh lump for SPA & Monza Races, as the power can decrease over 20hp over the course of a full weekend.

So Vettel should run the Fresh lump he has for the Qual & Race at Monza... then use the Used engines for the all the FP's.

A used lump at Monza Qually could lose you a couple grid positions because you can be sure everyone else will be on a fresh lump.

Pedro
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by Pedro » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:13 pm

Red Bull has modyfied their front wing element for Spa. It used to be horizontally more uniform two-piece element. It is now cut with vertical adaptor plate added. The revised inner section should improve airflow to the car's underfloor while the outer section should help to produce more front downforce.

Image
Valencia's version (above) compared with Spa's one (bottom)

More info in Czech:
http://www.f1news.cz/upravy-kridel-a-ro ... 33000.html

I was noticed by BreezyRacer that here are more threads about RB aero. As I am newbee here, how do you handle that? Maybe admins could do anything with that?
Source: F1news.cz
http://www.f1news.cz

qw56q
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by qw56q » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:06 am

http://f1vietnam.com/forum/images/modim ... rstone.jpg

Newey didn't come up with that nose design

Jersey Tom
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by Jersey Tom » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:37 am

Who said he did?
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

mike
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by mike » Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:42 am

qw56q wrote:http://f1vietnam.com/forum/images/modim ... rstone.jpg

Newey didn't come up with that nose design
correct me if im wrong but didnt Newey design FW13B??
according to wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FW13

and even if he didn't what is the point of this?
if it happends to help the flow of air away from the nose and to the sides, then its too bad that other engineers didn't use that in their design.
well maybe he could have gotton DDD at the start of the season?

Terrible3
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Re: Red Bull RB5

Post by Terrible3 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

qw56q wrote:http://f1vietnam.com/forum/images/modim ... rstone.jpg

Newey didn't come up with that nose design

The function of the raised section was more to due with packaging than anything else. The RB5 has this element extend to also aid in airflow. Two different logic's used to create a similar feature... nothing more.