Sauber C29

[Pedro]

Sauber has one of the better wind tunnels. They are in a good position to figure it out at home base.

Well, but you can test even in sophisticated wind-tunnel with scaled models (1:60) and with airflow up to 180 kph speed only - unless you don't want to exchange that for one of the few test days - which they surely don't.

[wesley123]

that one looks actually pretty simple and undevelopped, the tube just looks cut in, i would have at least kade the fin a wing profile itself.

What i can think of is that with regular air and that hot air the wing would stall more easily, an throttle sensitive valve could help with it.

[forty-two]

However McLaren drivers can switch it by the foot whenever they would like to, even on such places.

I do not think it's an issue to let it work automatically by pressure changes but it could be advantage to have manual control over it.

F1news.cz
http://f1news.cz/novinky/34299-sauber-u ... m-mclarenu

Do you KNOW for sure that McLaren drivers are able to switch their device? If so, please tell us more about what you know.

[HungryHebbo]

However McLaren drivers can switch it by the foot whenever they would like to, even on such places.

I do not think it's an issue to let it work automatically by pressure changes but it could be advantage to have manual control over it.

F1news.cz
http://f1news.cz/novinky/34299-sauber-u ... m-mclarenu

Do you KNOW for sure that McLaren drivers are able to switch their device? If so, please tell us more about what you know.

Yeah, that was my point. There's all this hype about it, but there hasn't been a single shred of evidence (that I've seen at least, not to say it isn't out there!) to support that it's driver operated!

that one looks actually pretty simple and undevelopped, the tube just looks cut in, i would have at least kade the fin a wing profile itself.

The Macca one appears (near enough) the same in my eyes...please prove me wrong though!

[roost89]

the size of the pipe going down is a bit worrying to me. Will it not spoil the air-flow over the middle section of the wing? May be some bad vortices behind the pipe.

[Pedro]

However McLaren drivers can switch it by the foot whenever they would like to, even on such places.

I do not think it's an issue to let it work automatically by pressure changes but it could be advantage to have manual control over it.

F1news.cz
http://f1news.cz/novinky/34299-sauber-u ... m-mclarenu

Do you KNOW for sure that McLaren drivers are able to switch their device? If so, please tell us more about what you know.

No, I don't. That is just my opinion based on what I have read so far. Besides, Whitmarsh didn't rule it out in Bahrain being questioned about that. I just find it more sophisticated and useful on some tracks.

Who could be sure except couple of McLaren employees (I am not one of them unfortunately)? Do you know for SURE it is operating automatically?

[forty-two]

However McLaren drivers can switch it by the foot whenever they would like to, even on such places.

I do not think it's an issue to let it work automatically by pressure changes but it could be advantage to have manual control over it.

F1news.cz
http://f1news.cz/novinky/34299-sauber-u ... m-mclarenu

Do you KNOW for sure that McLaren drivers are able to switch their device? If so, please tell us more about what you know.

No, I don't. That is just my opinion based on what I have read so far. Besides, Whitmarsh didn't rule it out in Bahrain being questioned about that. I just find it sophisticated and more useful on some tracks.

Who could be sure except couple of McLaren employees (I am not one of them unfortunately)? Do you know for SURE it is operating automatically?

No, I know nothing of the sort. It is for that reason that I think it's important not to base any other theories on an assumption that the McLaren system is, or is not able to be controlled by the driver. Until we know more at least.

[Giblet]

Sauber has one of the better wind tunnels. They are in a good position to figure it out at home base.

Well, but you can test even in sophisticated wind-tunnel with scaled models (1:60) and with airflow up to 180 kph speed only - unless you don't want to exchange that for one of the few test days - which they surely don't.

Of course, but when they do test what they have developed in CFD, having one of the best tunnels to validate their data puts them in a good position, or having a modicum trust in their CFD data means that if they don't get the performance they expect in practice, they can likely put the old cover back on and go back to scratch.

[Pedro]

Of course, but when they do test what they have developed in CFD, having one of the best tunnels to validate their data puts them in a good position, or having a modicum trust in their CFD data means that if they don't get the performance they expect in practice, they can likely put the old cover back on and go back to scratch.

1) CFD is a great stuff but you cant't rely just on that (fingers crossed for Virgin though).
2) I doubt anyone is trying to stall the wing at max. speed of 180 kph. Wind-tunnel is not of much use in this case.

[thestig84]

I think an extra reason to believe it is switchable is it may explain Mclaren spending 2 years developing it as apposed to Saubers much shorter term.

2 year development source was James Allen

Also scarbs says its not switchable http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/03/2 ... an-f-duct/

[marinopc]

In Bahrain McLaren tries the new F-duct... But months ago PDLR (ex-Macca tester) signed for Sauber... Inmediately, in Melbourne, Sauber has also the F-duct... a little suspicious, don't you think? =D> =D>

Great Pedro!

[ESPImperium]

One Question, Why are they called F-Ducts???

I cannot see what this does to the Sauber performance on % to P1 that im tracking this year.

[Pandamasque]

One Question, Why are they called F-Ducts???

Probably Rob Bell referred to it as 'that f3©king duct' in his comments about the McLaren system being against the spirit of the regulations.

[ringo]

Appears to be a passive system.
That wing is working on a different principle from Mclaren it seems. It looks like they are looking for more down-force than actually stalling the wing with that device. That pit area in the middle of the wing has a very high pressure, but slow velocity. The fin is adding some velocity to the hole to keep the flow more attached on the back side.
The middle of the wing is the area where the flow is least attached and has lower velocity. As you go out from the center yoward the end plates the velocity and upwash increase. I think this solution is to increase the upwash in the center and make the wing more effective over it's span at creating down force.
On the flip side it could be detaching the flow from the center by pushing it down away from the surface of the wing. This will only stall the center section and the not the other areas along the span.
Any how i don't know if it will be more effective than Mclaren's.

[raceman]

One Question, Why are they called F-Ducts???

I cannot see what this does to the Sauber performance on % to P1 that im tracking this year.

there is a funny description: when mclaren introduced the system, almost every single rival competitor uttered the F-word and eventually it got the name as the F-duct, so mclaren started using it.