Toro Rosso STR6 Ferrari

[PNSD]

Over the last two years STR have grew as a team to support themselves. They have their own design office in Bicester and are pretty independent of RedBull now. I expect them to grow next year and be able to produce a sustained assault on the mid pack. Regularly failing to get out of Q1 is a nice indication of where they actually are.

[donskar]

The car is unlocking guys. It beat a Merc fair and square. Just like I said it would in winter testing!

I even hear RedBull will lift the downforce restrictions off the TR for Brazil and Abu Dahbi. (Yep I believe RedBull limit the TR downforce).

I hope you're right; I've always pulled for TR. But I'm afraid it's more likely that Ferrari will grab Ascanelli for its tech team. (Is your post the result of a "controlled substance"?)

[raymondu999]

How good would STR be if RBR lent Adrian Newey as a Chief Technical Officer for a year or two?

To be fair Trailer; until 2009; Toro Rossos were designed by Adrian.

[PlatinumZealot]

Just watch in Brazil and Abu Dhabi.

ERMM Yeah, they just had a significant upgrade to their car.

Like I said, where is your source??

"Just watch in Brazil and Abu Dhabi" is not justification for your crazy reasons. Get real about this and look at the real circumstances. What reason would RedBull have to limit STR's downforce? At least to the point where they are only faster than Lotus, HRT and Virgin? Where is the gain?

Or are you joking with us?

I think there are more reasons to slow the Toro Rosso than allow full development. Toro Rosso's purpose may not be to win races and championships. (Check out Ricciardo's fully paid for seat and training programme at HRT).

Remember after 2007 when Vettel won with the TR and by that time the Torro Rosso was the better car, the RedBull mother team took away some of the engineers.

I still believe (and my sources too) that there are some restrictions by the mother companuy on what Toro Rosso is granted/allowed. Notice that every year since 2007 the car stays the same until the last few races. Last year they were the last to get F-duct and new nose cone, this year you had to wait till what, Japan(?) to finally hear of REAL upgrades.

It's a conspiracy! But the truth will be revealed as the TR will take it's rightful place as the 4th fastest car in the last races.

[aral]

I think there are more reasons to slow the Toro Rosso than allow full development. Toro Rosso's purpose may not be to win races and championships. (Check out Ricciardo's fully paid for seat and training programme at HRT).

Remember after 2007 when Vettel won with the TR and by that time the Torro Rosso was the better car, the RedBull mother team took away some of the engineers.

I still believe (and my sources too) that there are some restrictions by the mother companuy on what Toro Rosso is granted/allowed. Notice that every year since 2007 the car stays the same until the last few races. Last year they were the last to get F-duct and new nose cone, this year you had to wait till what, Japan(?) to finally hear of REAL upgrades.

It's a conspiracy! But the truth will be revealed as the TR will take it's rightful place as the 4th fastest car in the last races.

OH come on! There is nothing to be gained from trying to prve that conspiracies exist. When Vettel won in the STR, the car was not better than the Red Bull. It was the SAME car as the Red Bull, so why on earth would RB take some engineers from STR?
And yes, it took them longer to get an F-duct and a new nose cone, but this was because they are a small team and do not have the resources to rush updates through the system. This year, they went with a totally different concept (the double floor), and this has handicapped them due to being caught out without an EBD. That is what has been hindering them. MY sources, which are totally reliable, have confirmed that there is NO interlink between STR and RBR, financial or technical.

[scuderiafan]

Gentlemen...please do not feed the troll.

[gridwalker]

But the truth will be revealed as the TR will take it's rightful place as the 4th fastest car in the last races.

Don't make such predictions unless you are willing to be called on it. If I had a nomex suit then I'd be willing to make a wager

[Trailer23]

But the truth will be revealed as the TR will take it's rightful place as the 4th fastest car in the last races.

I'm a huge Toro Rosso fan, but even I have to admitt that STR being the 4th fastest in the Final Races is wishful thinking.

However, I will go on a limb & say that there is no conspiracy holding STR back from the front pack. Now that they've got some big time funds coming in from sponsors like Falcon Private Bank & Cepsa - they just might have to make that push to improve to get to the next level.

[PNSD]

I think there are more reasons to slow the Toro Rosso than allow full development. Toro Rosso's purpose may not be to win races and championships. (Check out Ricciardo's fully paid for seat and training programme at HRT).

Yeah, RBR want to give Ricciardo experience, STR have full time drivers to why not put him in the next available seat. Simple? I thought so.

Remember after 2007 when Vettel won with the TR and by that time the Torro Rosso was the better car, the RedBull mother team took away some of the engineers.

I still believe (and my sources too) that there are some restrictions by the mother companuy on what Toro Rosso is granted/allowed. Notice that every year since 2007 the car stays the same until the last few races. Last year they were the last to get F-duct and new nose cone, this year you had to wait till what, Japan(?) to finally hear of REAL upgrades.

It's a conspiracy! But the truth will be revealed as the TR will take it's rightful place as the 4th fastest car in the last races.

OK. Well ill start with this season since it is the easiest. STR have designed a complete new car. It has zero input from the RBT design office, and is fully and completely designed by STR themselves.

Since last year STR have gone through a large recruitment drive to hire designers, engineers, the lot. They now have offices in England and are using a wind tunnel. This takes time, given that they are almost starting from scratch! They have little money given that most of the RedBull money currently funds championship winning cars.

STR have been a victim of RB's success. To sustain a title fight against Mclaren, and Ferrari of course some resources would be more so limited for STR than RBR. Thats logical, agree?

Also, in 2007 they were quicker because they had better drivers!! And the car was identical! They also had the Ferrari engine, again arguably at the time stronger! 2008 they fell back, naturally after losing our current two time champion!

In my initial post I asked what or who your sources were. Could you at least enlighten us all with that please...

But let me ask you, can your argument be explained by logical reasoning? Forget what you believe, but is it possible that the upturn in performance can be explained by reason?

[MIKEY_!]

Conspiracy or not, 4th fastest, are you joking???? that makes them quicker than MGP, FI and Renault. That is incredible. RBR would want them to do as well as possible so long as RBR itself is still running well. If TR cars were distracting MGP and particularly Ferrari from attacking RBR then they would be doing that. And they have more to gain by having a quick 2nd team technology wise (and sponsor wise). And just imagine this statment from Red Bull HQ: "We are so good we can have 2 teams in the top 5, one of them leading both chapionships!!!! Meanwhile no one else can do anything like that, most of the teams can't even get past our 2nd team which used to be Minardi!!!"

[gridwalker]

Also, given the consistent rumors that STR is for sale, surely handicapping the team would reduce the team's value and have a detrimental effect upon the expected return on Red Bull's investment? That makes no sense at all!

If the team is capable of going faster on the same budget, RB would be a bunch of idiots to handicap them for any reason (which we know is not the case). Your theory makes no sense in economic or sporting terms.

I'd get some different "sources" if I were you.

[wesley123]

Although not entirely what n smikle ment, I do believe STR are handicapped, but that is mainly due to the budget available, the rely on whatever money Red Bull gives them, and in that way they are limited, with sponsoring from Nova, Falcon Bank and Cepsa they are less limited. But certain downforce restriction are just bs, why would RBR even do that? Like STR is suddenly the fastest on the grid without these limits, as a matter of fact, it would even be stupid to do so, STR could hold up Ferrari and McLaren on regular basis if they were 4th fastest

[aral]

STR are self supporting from sponsorship deals.

[Javert]

In the last race STR was much faster on the straights (almost 4 kph) than their nearest competitors (Schumacher and Rosberg). Why?

[hollus]

I wouldn't read too much into it. Nobody got much testing there (and neither did they last year!). So wing levels, radiator openings, gearing... they were mostly guesswork for all teams.