2025 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona-Catalunya May 30 - June 1

[avantman]

Silly rules anyway. Every new rule they come up with only hampers racing and competition, instead of making it better.
Restarts used to be funny, every restart used to be real and in modern F1 very rare opportunity to make a genuine non-DRS assisted overtake, which is always a joy to see.
Not anymore. and for what? For safety? Rubbish.

[search]

it isn't quite clear from the wording, but I would see this as a rule for before the restart, not when it's on already.

[Watto]

ah shoot!! I thought it was in 2023. Dunno how I misremembered. I guess it comes with age.

Apologies

Easy mistake took me some checking to figure it out too.

[Watto]

Clear violation in my opinion. Not that complaining, just showing that it was ‘missed’ and is a rule breach

Ferrari would argue Max didn't comply either.

https://ibb.co/yF2zDL8j

That probably does become grey. Perhaps what I wonder more is when do the guidelines consider they are racing again? After each car passes the start finish line or the leader and everyone after that is fair game? Oscar was very close to the line when that happened.

[avantman]

Some extra thoughts on Max rubbing tire with George. Would be silly to compare his move, let alone equal to maneuvers of Schumacher or Senna. Although first mentioned in that group has to be Prost and his outrageous move on Senna at Suzuka in '89, one of the dirtiest moves you would ever see from F1 champion ever. It was Prost who essentially initiated this vicious practice of trying to decide the outcome of the championship in his favor by using the car as a weapon. Schumacher followed the suit.
Anyway, to say Max did just the same against Russell is laughable. What could he gain from it, what was his benefit, the motive? Prost had it, although he failed pathetically and needed all Balestre power to seal it eventually. Schumacher failed in 1997 and paid for it.
What was behind Max move? Of course it is obvious he was frustrated massively, he said it himself. But still he was conscious and very precise executing his maneuver. It's not like he just rear-ended or T-boned Russell completely losing control of himself and wanting just to destroy something, not at all.
I came to conclusion, he was expressing his frustration with the FIA and what he felt at that moment their completely unfair rulings. That was his absurdly naive, infantile emotional attempt to point out the problem in these guidelines and FIA ruling.

Remember the last thing he's been told on the radio by GP?
Verstappen Mate I was ahead, he just rammed me off the road!
Lambiase But that’s the rules. That’s the rules we have to play with. It’s a shame, but that’s the rules.
So, Lambiase made it clear for him, they are absolutely sure the FIA would penalise Max if he not let him past, which in his opinion was utterly wrong and unfair.

What he does next? Obeys the order to let him past and immediately mirrors Russell overtake in T1.
He makes sure he very precisely hits, although it's more accurate to say rubs his front tire against Merc's front tire to make sure no harm would be done to bodywork or the floor, being far off the apex - exactly what Russell did (Max left him more than plenty space on the tarmac, George did not even had to run the kerb) and overtakes, immediately goes ahead and drives away. That's why shortly after he gives Russell position back again. So, it was not even an attempt to restore justice, which is what he did against Norris in Mexico. ("if it's ok for you overtake me off track and keep the position I'll do it back")
Remember what he said again after the race? A) you cannot critise (the FIA) anyway, B) it's these new completely unnatural driving guidelines that are the problem. And how many of us would not agree with him that's it's completely wrong when you got hit and forced off the track and then receive a message to give the position back as you got overtaken legitimately?
That's the key to understand what's going on inside his head being pumped up by all sorts of hormones.
Talking to the team post-race when he calmed down, he realised quickly it all ended very lucky for him because Russell did not get a puncture, otherwise the penalty and the outcome would've for sure been worse. The stewards got the message and motive behind his action, which is why so lenient penalty as many thought. Only because no harm was done and no advantage was gained.
And by the way, we cannot be sure that he would not get a penalty after the race if he decided to not let Russell by and just kept his position. Because you know they at the FIA are consistently inconsistent. It was easy for them not to give him another penalty after the race. This system where a team has to guess if their driver will get a penalty or not and the FIA can take any amount of time to decide on it is completely flawed.

Of course most people only see what they want to see. And if you already decided Ver is dirty dangerous driver, your brain is programmed in certain way to search unconsciously for confirmation in everything that happens. Equally if you already decided some other driver is clean and fair. because you like to think he is, you will ignore him turning in deliberately to hit the rival, despite all the evidence. He has a problem of controlling his negative emotions, which is a weakness. But nothing there was either dangerous or dirty.
That's all not to defend him, not to excuse him, he doesn't need nor he deserves that. That's just to explain how his infantile mind works and what really was behind his action.

[Quantum]

That probably does become grey. Perhaps what I wonder more is when do the guidelines consider they are racing again? After each car passes the start finish line or the leader and everyone after that is fair game? Oscar was very close to the line when that happened.

There must be some discretion. Such when a driver behind the leader bites off more than he can chew and makes a clear mistake.
Everyone behind is penalised for that drivers mistake?
Everyone ahead gets a clear unsporting advantage?
Nobody can ignore the mistake in the lead up to that finish line, something the stewards and everyone who watched the race could see.

Extenuating circumstances that Ferrari would have more than reasonable grounds to argue.
There were erratic manoeuvres which impeded the restart for drivers behind Max.
Probably why nothing was done about it.

[Waz]

I think it's fair to say that no other driver will give the position back in future after this race.

[kurtj]

I think it's fair to say that no other driver will give the position back in future after this race.

One bad decision doesn't change the course of the sport. Teams do debrief, re-evaluate the manner in which a decision was made and they move on. If a similar situation rise again, the same team and driver might take the same decision again if data points to it. Just because of one mistake, drivers and teams can't make mistakes that would become costly. They are far more rational people.

[Waz]

I think it's fair to say that no other driver will give the position back in future after this race.

One bad decision doesn't change the course of the sport. Teams do debrief, re-evaluate the manner in which a decision was made and they move on. If a similar situation rise again, the same team and driver might take the same decision again if data points to it. Just because of one mistake, drivers and teams can't make mistakes that would become costly. They are far more rational people.

This isn't something that is controlled by the team entirely. And Stewards are not known for consistency or being rational

[chrisc90]

Stewards should just advise to give the position back, then if it doesn’t happen, impose the penalty. 10s plus the gap to the driver you should have let past . Obviously doesn’t fit in all circumstances such as if the overtaken driver pits

[Waz]

Stewards should just advise to give the position back, then if it doesn’t happen, impose the penalty. 10s plus the gap to the driver you should have let past . Obviously doesn’t fit in all circumstances such as if the overtaken driver pits

It's honestly a surprise that there is no certainty over whether the Stewards will even investigate, never mind impose a penalty, before teams are expected to make a decision for themselves.

Teams really should be told if a driver needs to give the position back or face a penalty. The only uncertainty for the team should be the severity of the penalty.

[F1NAC]

I never understood that stuff like : We'll let teams to decide wether should their driver give the position back or not. I mean... What are you doing at the races then? Ping Pong?

[GrizzleBoy]

Some extra thoughts on Max rubbing tire with George. Would be silly to compare his move, let alone equal to maneuvers of Schumacher or Senna. Although first mentioned in that group has to be Prost and his outrageous move on Senna at Suzuka in '89, one of the dirtiest moves you would ever see from F1 champion ever. It was Prost who essentially initiated this vicious practice of trying to decide the outcome of the championship in his favor by using the car as a weapon. Schumacher followed the suit.
Anyway, to say Max did just the same against Russell is laughable. What could he gain from it, what was his benefit, the motive? Prost had it, although he failed pathetically and needed all Balestre power to seal it eventually. Schumacher failed in 1997 and paid for it.
What was behind Max move? Of course it is obvious he was frustrated massively, he said it himself. But still he was conscious and very precise executing his maneuver. It's not like he just rear-ended or T-boned Russell completely losing control of himself and wanting just to destroy something, not at all.
I came to conclusion, he was expressing his frustration with the FIA and what he felt at that moment their completely unfair rulings. That was his absurdly naive, infantile emotional attempt to point out the problem in these guidelines and FIA ruling.

Remember the last thing he's been told on the radio by GP?
Verstappen Mate I was ahead, he just rammed me off the road!
Lambiase But that’s the rules. That’s the rules we have to play with. It’s a shame, but that’s the rules.
So, Lambiase made it clear for him, they are absolutely sure the FIA would penalise Max if he not let him past, which in his opinion was utterly wrong and unfair.

What he does next? Obeys the order to let him past and immediately mirrors Russell overtake in T1.
He makes sure he very precisely hits, although it's more accurate to say rubs his front tire against Merc's front tire to make sure no harm would be done to bodywork or the floor, being far off the apex - exactly what Russell did (Max left him more than plenty space on the tarmac, George did not even had to run the kerb) and overtakes, immediately goes ahead and drives away. That's why shortly after he gives Russell position back again. So, it was not even an attempt to restore justice, which is what he did against Norris in Mexico. ("if it's ok for you overtake me off track and keep the position I'll do it back")
Remember what he said again after the race? A) you cannot critise (the FIA) anyway, B) it's these new completely unnatural driving guidelines that are the problem. And how many of us would not agree with him that's it's completely wrong when you got hit and forced off the track and then receive a message to give the position back as you got overtaken legitimately?
That's the key to understand what's going on inside his head being pumped up by all sorts of hormones.
Talking to the team post-race when he calmed down, he realised quickly it all ended very lucky for him because Russell did not get a puncture, otherwise the penalty and the outcome would've for sure been worse. The stewards got the message and motive behind his action, which is why so lenient penalty as many thought. Only because no harm was done and no advantage was gained.
And by the way, we cannot be sure that he would not get a penalty after the race if he decided to not let Russell by and just kept his position. Because you know they at the FIA are consistently inconsistent. It was easy for them not to give him another penalty after the race. This system where a team has to guess if their driver will get a penalty or not and the FIA can take any amount of time to decide on it is completely flawed.

Of course most people only see what they want to see. And if you already decided Ver is dirty dangerous driver, your brain is programmed in certain way to search unconsciously for confirmation in everything that happens. Equally if you already decided some other driver is clean and fair. because you like to think he is, you will ignore him turning in deliberately to hit the rival, despite all the evidence. He has a problem of controlling his negative emotions, which is a weakness. But nothing there was either dangerous or dirty.
That's all not to defend him, not to excuse him, he doesn't need nor he deserves that. That's just to explain how his infantile mind works and what really was behind his action.

Purposely hitting other cars with your car is dirty racing lol.

The "Yeah but, yeah but, ABC, XYZ, 123" of it is unnecessary.

"I know i hit you, on purpose, but what you did by accident made me so angry. Im not really a bad person, its just thst you make me feel like this and blah blah blah have sympathy for poor old me" is something a person presiding over an abusive relationship would say.

[Mattchu]

It would seem the Red Bull PR team has decreed that we talk about anything other than the Max incident. That carpet has plenty of room left for things to be swept under!

Apparently the Red Bull is a vastly inferior car, the company that since the start of 2023 has won 31 of the 55 races held, plus 3 out of 9 poles in 2025 (2 wins) are now not able to easily win therefore the car is vastly inferior.
If the Red Bull is, then what does that make the Mercedes, or the Ferrari, or even the Alpine or Aston? those last two are inferior.

[fourmula1]

Max cannot be the GOAT because he is clearly limited by his inability to process certain emotions. Probably learnt at a young age from his father...when you lose or are angry how to react. Yell, kick, scream, punch the wall, blame others. Imagine if MCL lacks upgrades and Red Bull figures out the rear tire limitation and points come down to this move.

Fangio, Senna, Prost, Schumi, Ham >>>>>>>> Max.