F1 Tracks

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Moxie
Moxie
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F1 Tracks

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I read an interesting column in Racecar Engineering about the lack of variety in the F1 tracks. (I do not have the article in front of me, but will post a proper reference later) I must say that I agreed with a lot of what was written. It started me thinking about the current state of F1, and the "out of the racing surface" issues encountered last year.

A thought is that there could be an electronic wall built into the runoff areas. If the cars transponder crosses that line, the car is disqualified. Cameras could be used to verify the electronic signals. Consider it a death trap for the car, but non-lethal for the driver. If they can track quali times to thousandths of a second, surely they can do this.

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: F1 Tracks

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You're absolutely right about lack of variety. One of the features of Tilke's track design style has been that he's always had one high speed sector, one aero sector, and one low speed sector on every single circuit. Given the rapid expansion of tracks, it would have been lovely to see individual tracks going more towards certain extremes.

I don't however like the idea of invisible barriers – this would remove a large part of the excitement... Not because of a lack of crashes, but because a viewer would not be able to see the wall, and a driver would not be able to clip it with a wheel and (maybe) get away with it.

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Gridlock
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:14 am

Re: F1 Tracks

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Actually on-screen "pretend" walls would be fairly trivial, it's only a small step up from those hideous, jaggy-JPG virtual adverts FOM stick on the world feed.

Was Malaysia Tilke? If so, how'd he go so wrong after?
#58

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SiLo
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: F1 Tracks

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I would love to see more tracks like Spa, built not just on very flat ground out of the way but up in mountains etc. I also think we need more tracks like Monza, very technical in their own way and always great for racing!
Felipe Baby!

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: F1 Tracks

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Gridlock wrote:Actually on-screen "pretend" walls would be fairly trivial, it's only a small step up from those hideous, jaggy-JPG virtual adverts FOM stick on the world feed.
But it would still not be possible to clip one.
Was Malaysia Tilke? If so, how'd he go so wrong after?
Yes it was, and he didn't really go wrong after that, he just kept making the same circuit over and over again, that's all.
I would love to see more tracks like Spa, built not just on very flat ground out of the way but up in mountains etc. I also think we need more tracks like Monza, very technical in their own way and always great for racing!
Agreed. I think probably modern circuit designers simply under estimate how steep a slope needs to be. Spa is an incredibly hilly circuit. Eau Rouge/Radillon are a 1:3 incline, they really don't look like that on TV.

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Gridlock
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Re: F1 Tracks

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He never came up with another Turn1-3 complex like that though. All he seemed to take away was "long straights!"

Look at Korea's pit exit - where's the talent/knowledge? They either don't understand how racing works or don't care about driver safety.

As for clipping imaginary walls, I say there's current drivers who would probably surprise you :twisted:
#58

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: F1 Tracks

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Gridlock wrote:He never came up with another Turn1-3 complex like that though. All he seemed to take away was "long straights!"
Sure he did – China.
As for clipping imaginary walls, I say there's current drivers who would probably surprise you :twisted:
lol =D>

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Gridlock
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Re: F1 Tracks

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Well, Ok, he cloned that exact complex, I mean he didn't keep up the creativity.

I reckon they should take out the Suzuka chicane and let Hamilton take him round in the two-seat F1 car a few times :D
#58

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: F1 Tracks

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Gridlock wrote:Well, Ok, he cloned that exact complex, I mean he didn't keep up the creativity.
Well that's exactly my point – he came up with plenty of good tracks – they're just all the same. They all have a sector of insane straights, a sector of sweepers, and a sector of street circuit like stuff.

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SiLo
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Re: F1 Tracks

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I hate the Korea circuit, hated the one in India and I don't really like Hungary. Tilke designs exquisite parts of tracks, but never gets the whole thing right. First turn of Malaysia is really fun to watch, always overtaking after the straight there too, The straight in Istanbul after that tricky corner before it always generated overtaking too.

Anyone fancy mocking up a circuit of the best parts from some tracks throughout the calendar? If so, I submit Eau Rouge, Pouhon, Malaysia 1st turn after the Istanbul straight and Parabolica. Anyone care to add to that?
Felipe Baby!

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Gridlock
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Re: F1 Tracks

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Degna 1 + 2 please ;)

I'm fairly sure someone already did this IRL, one of those house + circuit deals in Spain or maybe one of the Family Businesses in the Middle East.
#58

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Re: F1 Tracks

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SiLo wrote:I hate the Korea circuit, hated the one in India and I don't really like Hungary.
He didn't design the Hungaroring did he?
Gridlock wrote:Degna 1 + 2 please ;)
I'm confident that these were the inspiration for turns 8 and 9 at Malaysia. The only problem is the lack of a gravel trap on the outside to end your race if you get them wrong.

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SiLo
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Re: F1 Tracks

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He didn't but I didn't think we were implicitly discussion Tilke designs, just tracks in general :)
Felipe Baby!

Moxie
Moxie
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Re: F1 Tracks

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I don't want to change the discussion here to one about the risks of racing..and drivers assuming that risk...save that for another thread. As I brought up the topic I did recognize a need to respect the drivers' safety. I don't want drivers getting killed for my entertainment. To that end I thought up the invisible wall idea. Admittedly it wasn't the best idea, but I thought that perhaps some of the engineering types might jump in with ideas of their own.

I wasn't intending to criticize Mr. Tilke directly, obviously he is a talented man. However, for the sake of variety, I believe F1 would benefit if new tracks and perhaps mods at existing tracks were designed by designers other than Tilke. Why not represent different philosophies of track design.

Personally, I kind of wish F1 would run just one oval, not necessarily a NASCAR type oval...just something that lends itself to different engineering principles. I have to believe that Force India and Torro Rosso may have had a chance to win a race or two over the last few years with their dominant top speeds if an oval had been on the schedule.

Earnard Beccelstone
Earnard Beccelstone
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:49 am

Re: F1 Tracks

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Give me elevation changes - the bigger the better - and courses that follow the natural curves of the landscape. That or high speed.

Most of my favourite tracks have either significant height changes - Spa, Mt Panorama, Imola, even Turkey - or are consistently fast - Spa (again), Monza, old Hockenheim, Silverstone (pre 2010 lay-out changes), A1 Ring - rater than the Tilke-like fast section, slow section, fast section malarkey.