2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:31 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 pm
Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:08 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:53 pm
https://postimg.cc/image/udwdmp08d/
Meanwhile, Lewis could start on S tyre knowing he could lose the lead after the first straight even if he wins the pole, then stay longer and in the end have a short stint on SS tyre at max attack mode
That wont work, as Ferrari will just mirror the strategy in Q2.

Assuming Mercedes see themselves as the underdog and want to win the WDC at all costs, the intelligent thing to do would be to split strategies with Hamilton and Bottas. Have Bottas do S and Hamilton SS in Q2. Ferrari will surely mirror Hamilton as he is the WDC contender. Then use the second driver, Bottas, play a road block to when Vettel stops before to ensure an overcut works. Same would apply in reverse too.

It’s dirty stuff, especially for the second driver and IMO Mercedes wont do it, but it is still fascinating to discuss the posibility of a tactic like that being used...
How did we go from fans hating team orders to something like this being discussed?

Blows my mind that any team would execute a strategy to that level of hindrance.
What, like Ferrari using Kimi to protect a broken Vettel from a charging Hamilton in Hungary last year?

This kind of stuff happens all the time. F1 is not a paragon of virtue.
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atanatizante
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by atanatizante » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:40 pm

Juzh wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:11 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:19 pm
I don't understand why everyone is so downbeat abut Mercedes after Spa. They were basically equal speed with Ferrari. They just lacked the burst of speed which Ferrari can maintain for like 5-10 seconds. Otherwise they are almost identical. In my opinion if Vettel couldn't have passed at the 1st straight it would have stayed stagnant. Therefore, I don't have favorite for this race. It is a coin flip.
Can confirm.
That burst of speed which Ferrari (or better say longer deployment at full power) I should say is rather 4 sec. longer than what Merc has and it`s allowed (16,33 sec).

This is the proof of what Rosberg said about Ferrari having some 25% more battery power or 1MJ more or 120kW for 4 sec. Imagine what a sitting duck was Lewis when Vettel blizz passed him for having 160HP more for 4 sec. on the Kemmel straight ...
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sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by sosic2121 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:41 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:31 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 pm
Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:08 pm


That wont work, as Ferrari will just mirror the strategy in Q2.

Assuming Mercedes see themselves as the underdog and want to win the WDC at all costs, the intelligent thing to do would be to split strategies with Hamilton and Bottas. Have Bottas do S and Hamilton SS in Q2. Ferrari will surely mirror Hamilton as he is the WDC contender. Then use the second driver, Bottas, play a road block to when Vettel stops before to ensure an overcut works. Same would apply in reverse too.

It’s dirty stuff, especially for the second driver and IMO Mercedes wont do it, but it is still fascinating to discuss the posibility of a tactic like that being used...
How did we go from fans hating team orders to something like this being discussed?

Blows my mind that any team would execute a strategy to that level of hindrance.
What, like Ferrari using Kimi to protect a broken Vettel from a charging Hamilton in Hungary last year?

This kind of stuff happens all the time. F1 is not a paragon of virtue.
Both teams used this strategy many times. Nothing wrong there.

P.S. Actually, Hungary 2017 is a bad example because Ferrari did nothing.
But they used Kimi many times, mostly unsuccessfully.

Phil
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Phil » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:47 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 pm
How did we go from fans hating team orders to something like this being discussed?

Blows my mind that any team would execute a strategy to that level of hindrance.
Formula 1 is a team-sport. Always has been. And such strategies as the one I suggested have been widely used and employed throughout the history of F1 and recently too. For example; RedBull has been splitting strategies of their drivers on a regular basis to ensure they can maximise the result with either driver (more so last year than this). If you are not quick enough for pole but want a chance to win the race, it's always better to split strategies. If both your drivers run the same strategy, little can be done during the race, especially with passing being rather difficult. By splitting strategies, you are also ensuring a better chance of opportunism.


But yeah, not nice for us fans, who want to see both drivers have equal opportunity.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Sevach
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Sevach » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:16 pm

Mercedes transforming Spa into a "traction heavy" circuit is one of the most ridiculous things i've seen in a while, they are about to get owned hard again.

Ringleheim
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Ringleheim » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:56 am

Ferrari now has the best PU in the field and there is no bigger power track than Monza.

Barring rain during the race and resulting craziness, Vettel should win the race.

Of note: it very rarely rains at Monza in early September. The only real rain I remember there for many years is when Vettel won his first race in a Toro Rosso.

siskue2005
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by siskue2005 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:13 am

Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:02 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:01 pm
LM10 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:35 pm


Do you expect Hamilton to be 2nd at the minimum in Singapore? Can be, but I would not bet on it.
I don't...also I don't expect Vettel to win 5 out of 8 races either
Because we haven't seen him do THAT before... :roll:
Not because he personally cant...but because of the challenge that might come from his rivals

siskue2005
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by siskue2005 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:26 am

Sevach wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:16 pm
Mercedes transforming Spa into a "traction heavy" circuit is one of the most ridiculous things i've seen in a while, they are about to get owned hard again.
Could you give the exact quote from Merc were they said it is traction heavy circuit? :wtf:

All they said that they struggled in the first and last corner and Ferrari seems to have better traction in those corners relative to them.....and the struggle in first corner meant they struggle up the long straight after that.
That is all they said.

Fulcrum
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Fulcrum » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:43 am

I would expect Monza to be an appropriate time and venue for Ferrari to make an announcement about their driver lineup for 2019, especially if they're going to jettison Raikkonen.

Juzh
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Juzh » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:02 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:31 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 pm
Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:08 pm


That wont work, as Ferrari will just mirror the strategy in Q2.

Assuming Mercedes see themselves as the underdog and want to win the WDC at all costs, the intelligent thing to do would be to split strategies with Hamilton and Bottas. Have Bottas do S and Hamilton SS in Q2. Ferrari will surely mirror Hamilton as he is the WDC contender. Then use the second driver, Bottas, play a road block to when Vettel stops before to ensure an overcut works. Same would apply in reverse too.

It’s dirty stuff, especially for the second driver and IMO Mercedes wont do it, but it is still fascinating to discuss the posibility of a tactic like that being used...
How did we go from fans hating team orders to something like this being discussed?

Blows my mind that any team would execute a strategy to that level of hindrance.
What, like Ferrari using Kimi to protect a broken Vettel from a charging Hamilton in Hungary last year?

This kind of stuff happens all the time. F1 is not a paragon of virtue.
Sound like mercedes using Bottas to hold up vettel in spain 2017 when his tires were already completely gone.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:08 am

Juzh wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:02 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
This kind of stuff happens all the time. F1 is not a paragon of virtue.
Sound like mercedes using Bottas to hold up vettel in spain 2017 when his tires were already completely gone.
Like I said, it happens all the time. Not attempting to point score for/against any team or driver here.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by WaikeCU » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:18 am

siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:16 pm
Out of the next 8 races, Lewis only needs to win 3 races and come 2nd in the rest of 5 races to win the championship by 3 points ..............i think the championship will go down the wire.
Realistically Lewis can win Suzuka, Austin and Brazil.....rest he can scrape in 2nd at the minimum.
That is if Vettel doesn't bottle it and wins 5 of them, you say? I could expect another DNF by either of them.

LM10
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by LM10 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:10 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:12 pm
LM10 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:35 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:16 pm
Out of the next 8 races, Lewis only needs to win 3 races and come 2nd in the rest of 5 races to win the championship by 3 points ..............i think the championship will go down the wire.
Realistically Lewis can win Suzuka, Austin and Brazil.....rest he can scrape in 2nd at the minimum.
Do you expect Hamilton to be 2nd at the minimum in Singapore? Can be, but I would not bet on it.
Depends who Vettel crashes in to... :wink: :lol:
=D>

WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by WaikeCU » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:28 am

Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 pm
Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:08 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:53 pm
https://postimg.cc/image/udwdmp08d/
Meanwhile, Lewis could start on S tyre knowing he could lose the lead after the first straight even if he wins the pole, then stay longer and in the end have a short stint on SS tyre at max attack mode
That wont work, as Ferrari will just mirror the strategy in Q2.

Assuming Mercedes see themselves as the underdog and want to win the WDC at all costs, the intelligent thing to do would be to split strategies with Hamilton and Bottas. Have Bottas do S and Hamilton SS in Q2. Ferrari will surely mirror Hamilton as he is the WDC contender. Then use the second driver, Bottas, play a road block to when Vettel stops before to ensure an overcut works. Same would apply in reverse too.

It’s dirty stuff, especially for the second driver and IMO Mercedes wont do it, but it is still fascinating to discuss the posibility of a tactic like that being used...
How did we go from fans hating team orders to something like this being discussed?

Blows my mind that any team would execute a strategy to that level of hindrance.
hindrance is underrated. Just like at Spa, if Lewis didn't come out of the pit behind Verstappen on fresh tires, I'd think he would have come a lot closer when Vettel exited the pit, then the race through Eau Rouge-Raidillon-Kemmel, would have been exciting and a pass for the lead could have happened.

Just a car in front with some turbulent air can have a big impact on the outcome of a race.

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by MtthsMlw » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:41 am

Image