2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

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GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by GrandAxe » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:43 am

F1NAC wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:38 am
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Lewis quality will never see him in a dog of a car.
Except he makes the mortal mistake many sportsmen do; hanging on past his prime.

sAx
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by sAx » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:47 am

Been there before MP4-24!
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proteus
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by proteus » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:49 am

timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:21 am
zeph wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:54 am
How the mighty have fallen...

McLaren and Williams dead last. The end of an era.
Yeah, reminds me of Lotus and Tyrrell.
:(
Hope they can reverse the situation, but just how?
In the way the modern F1 works, only by selling themself out to a manufacturer teams, like Williams did in 2014. There is practically no other way - maybe if they manage to find a brilliant engineer such as Adrian Nevey - and even he is not enough for the championship.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by Jolle » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 am

proteus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:49 am
timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:21 am
zeph wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:54 am
How the mighty have fallen...

McLaren and Williams dead last. The end of an era.
Yeah, reminds me of Lotus and Tyrrell.
:(
Hope they can reverse the situation, but just how?
In the way the modern F1 works, only by selling themself out to a manufacturer teams, like Williams did in 2014. There is practically no other way - maybe if they manage to find a brilliant engineer such as Adrian Nevey - and even he is not enough for the championship.
Or be a works team like they would have with Honda.

proteus
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by proteus » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:07 am

Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 am
proteus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:49 am
timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:21 am

Yeah, reminds me of Lotus and Tyrrell.
:(
Hope they can reverse the situation, but just how?
In the way the modern F1 works, only by selling themself out to a manufacturer teams, like Williams did in 2014. There is practically no other way - maybe if they manage to find a brilliant engineer such as Adrian Nevey - and even he is not enough for the championship.
Or be a works team like they would have with Honda.
If collaboration with Redbull works out, then they have shot themslef to the knee, especially since them both (Mclaren and Honda) realised all the problems that were during the design stage of both car and the engine - especially in terms of facility and personel locations.

In the other hand, Redbull may prove themself to be a dudd, staying the third team on the grid, or slipping behind Renault.

Since Honda was the only one brave enough to enter, its hard to say if works deal is enough to succeed in this sport kidnapped by the manufactures...
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

GPR -A
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by GPR -A » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:08 am

F1NAC wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:38 am
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Nobody wins in a dog of a car. Neither did Senna in 1992 and 1993. At best, they can make an impression once in a while through the season, which Lewis also did in 2009 and 2011. Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by Jolle » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:16 am

proteus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:07 am
Jolle wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 am
proteus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:49 am


In the way the modern F1 works, only by selling themself out to a manufacturer teams, like Williams did in 2014. There is practically no other way - maybe if they manage to find a brilliant engineer such as Adrian Nevey - and even he is not enough for the championship.
Or be a works team like they would have with Honda.
If collaboration with Redbull works out, then they have shot themslef to the knee, especially since them both (Mclaren and Honda) realised all the problems that were during the design stage of both car and the engine - especially in terms of facility and personel locations.

In the other hand, Redbull may prove themself to be a dudd, staying the third team on the grid, or slipping behind Renault.

Since Honda was the only one brave enough to enter, its hard to say if works deal is enough to succeed in this sport kidnapped by the manufactures...
This is nothing new and has been the way to win in F1 for the last decades. Williams with Renault, Williams with BMW, McLaren with Honda in the 80ies and 90ies. The difference the last 15 years is that the big manufactures, following Renault buying Benneton, bought out teams to have it all attention on themselves. The only few years that the engine wasn't important was during the restricted V8 days. Even back in the 60ies, when Lotus build a partnership with Ford it was crucial.

Shakeman
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by Shakeman » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:23 am

F1NAC wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:38 am
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Lewis drove some McLaren shoe boxes and dragged them further up the grid than they had any right to be. The first Merc he drove wasn't exactly a pedigree championship winning car was it?

He's done enough in crap cars to show his own driver pedigree and he made his own 'luck' by jumping to the unfancied Merc outfit when he did. Imagine if he had stayed with McLaren :o.

timbo
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by timbo » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:35 am

GPR -A wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:08 am
Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Dunno, maybe Rosberg in 1982? 2012 was a hectic season, Alonso showcased his genius of consistency.

As for Lewis in a crap car... As other's mentioned we've seen that. What I would like to see more is him paired with a fast and ambitious teammate. It seems that is his only weakness if he has one. I even think that Merc's team strategy in Russia was meant to demonstrate Lewis that the team is behind him.

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by Jolle » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:46 am

timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:35 am
GPR -A wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:08 am
Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Dunno, maybe Rosberg in 1982? 2012 was a hectic season, Alonso showcased his genius of consistency.

As for Lewis in a crap car... As other's mentioned we've seen that. What I would like to see more is him paired with a fast and ambitious teammate. It seems that is his only weakness if he has one. I even think that Merc's team strategy in Russia was meant to demonstrate Lewis that the team is behind him.
I think that is Mercedes' plan. They either going to put Ocon in Bottas' seat in 2020 if that is going to be his last year with them or team him up with Ocon or Verstappen in 2021 if he carries on. This always worked in the past and it's a great way to hand over a team to a new champion. Timing is important! The perfect duration in one season, two most of the times goes bad (1989 bad). I think that Ferrari is going to have problems with (at least) two years of Vettel/Leclerc.

Shrieker
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by Shrieker » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:47 am

Shakeman wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:23 am
Imagine if he had stayed with McLaren :o.
I suspect he'd have imploded even worse than Alonso did with McHonda.
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GPR -A
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by GPR -A » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:47 am

timbo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:35 am
GPR -A wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:08 am
Never seen anyone fight for a championship like Alonso did in 2012!
Dunno, maybe Rosberg in 1982? 2012 was a hectic season, Alonso showcased his genius of consistency.

As for Lewis in a crap car... As other's mentioned we've seen that. What I would like to see more is him paired with a fast and ambitious teammate. It seems that is his only weakness if he has one. I even think that Merc's team strategy in Russia was meant to demonstrate Lewis that the team is behind him.
What would be interesting then is to NOT have rules of engagement crap. Lewis paired with another fast and ambitious teammate WITHOUT rules of engagement where both drivers are free to have their own strategy. That would be great!

GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by GrandAxe » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:09 am

Lewis was paired with the reigning world champ in his very first year and did an impressive job by coming out tops, losing the WDC by only a point.
What member of the current pack is as good as Alonso?

Lewis doesn't need to be paired with anyone to prove anything further.

LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by LM10 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:14 am

GrandAxe wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:43 am
F1NAC wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:38 am
50 wins for Lewis... In a Mercedes only... I would like to see him in a dog of a car at least 1 season before he retires.
Lewis quality will never see him in a dog of a car.
Except he makes the mortal mistake many sportsmen do; hanging on past his prime.
That’s bs. What about Alonso’s quality then? Who could have told that he would end up in such a dog of a car for several years, without any minimal chance of even winning a race?

GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 5-7 October

Post by GrandAxe » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:17 am

Alonso made his own "luck". Personality is part of quality.