2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Leclerc in the Ferrari will have Max in his pocket, then Russell/Ocon in the Mercedes.
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:02 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Leclerc in the Ferrari will have Max in his pocket, then Russell/Ocon in the Mercedes.
Leclerc is the one to beat I think, since he has beaten Russell before, but it's still a question mark on Verstappen. Yes he's a potential Champion, but so are other youngsters.

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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TAG wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:03 am
LM10 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:51 am
dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:51 pm


I predict that next year the word petulance will be used to describe these two a lot.
Let's remember this comment.
Maybe Leclerc leaves them both behind. 2019 will be interesting. This race was a good way to wrap up the season, despite Will Smith.
Might very well be. Leclerc has been amazing this season. I’m not sure, if he really is that good or it looks like that because Ericsson on the other hand is very bad. But we will find out soon.
For sure, it can be told that Leclerc is a very talented driver with much potential. As a Ferrari fan I’m happy he’s gotten a seat.

As for the Will Smith part.. I agree. :lol:

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:02 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Leclerc in the Ferrari will have Max in his pocket, then Russell/Ocon in the Mercedes.
To be fair, we have seen almost none of what LeClerc's abilities are. He has beaten a mediocre driver over the season with a decent car AND with some really amazing performances. We will have to reserve the comparison with Max. Max has beaten one of the best drivers on the grid who was his team mate, day in day out in qualifying and over a season in 2018 (anyone talking about Ric DNFs should use the same template for 2017 comparisons). So, until LeClerc goes out there and delivers the goods, first, by beating his own team mate and then taking his car to deserving results, he wouldn't be in a position to be compared with Max. There is no doubt the kid is a great talent. Let's wait.

Well, Ocon doesn't excite anyone that much. He might be good, but there hasn't been an outstanding performance from him until now.

Russell hasn't turned a wheel in F1 yet. He looks to be no different than LeClerc. Exciting times ahead!

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Lewis only made mistakes in the year that there was a lot of insider whispering at McLaren as well as bad luck with steward decisions which made him think he was being picked on for racial reasons (hence his famous Alli G quip). Even then, he still performed at a much higher level than Max ever has.

If Max doesn't address his mindset, he might never win a WDC - which is a season long high pressure event. He has fallen apart on numerous occasions, even without yet facing a stern test of any kind, just track incidents with Vettel, Bottas, Kimi etc.

Max has never won a WDC in any lower formula racing series, talk less F1; his best position in a championship to date is 3rd behind Ocon (2nd) and Tom Blomqvist (championship winner) in Formula 3 (2014).
Only after he's won a couple of WDC's can we begin comparing him to the likes of Vettel, Alonso, Lewis, or even Kimi.

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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Leclerc dominated F2, that's what made me aware of him and his ability. Speaking of Max - I think Max is extremely fast, that is undisputed, but the only real reference we have of him, is that he seems to be quicker than Ricciardo and that he was a bit quicker than Sainz (who has not really impressed against Hulkenberg).

In other words - Max may be one of the fastest, or he might simply be better than most. Also hard to compare him against Hamilton. In any case, Leclerc won't be driving against Max in the same team, he'll be driving against Vettel. So any comparison is moot anyway. It's going to be Ferrari-Vettel and Ferrari-Leclerc vs Redbull-Max. It's a package deal. And given how strong Ferrari have been this year, I think both Vettel and Leclerc will be very competitive against RedBull and Mercedes.
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:36 am
A lot of people here really hoping Max to fail. Even pre-emptive petulance strikes have been launched already I see. Nice. I get so sick of it, it is so utterly condescending and why must those kind of terms be used every time, even if they did not happen and are totally off topic in this Abu Dhabi 2018 GP topic. Please keep them to your chest. I am confident you will find more then enough opportunity to empty the them onto next years race topics.
No one wants him to fail, so stop reading into posts what you want to read into them. I'm sorry you don't like the word Petulant, but that's just who/what max is! Four years into his career and he acts the same way he did on day one.
Petulance - the quality of being childishly sulky or bad-tempered.
And this is on topic even for Abu Dhabi, listen to the team radio highlights where his engineer gave him a verbal check yourself. IMO, everyone is getting tired of his attitude.

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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GrandAxe wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:41 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Lewis only made mistakes in the year that there was a lot of insider whispering at McLaren as well as bad luck with steward decisions which made him think he was being picked on for racial reasons (hence his famous Alli G quip). Even then, he still performed at a much higher level than Max ever has.

If Max doesn't address his mindset, he might never win a WDC - which is a season long high pressure event. He has fallen apart on numerous occasions, even without yet facing a stern test of any kind, just track incidents with Vettel, Bottas, Kimi etc.

Max has never won a WDC in any lower formula racing series, talk less F1; his best position in a championship to date is 3rd behind Ocon (2nd) and Tom Blomqvist (championship winner) in Formula 3 (2014).
Only after he's won a couple of WDC's can we begin comparing him to the likes of Vettel, Alonso, Lewis, or even Kimi.
I believe Ocon won that Formula 3 title. Tom was 2nd.
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:15 pm
I believe Ocon won that Formula 3 title. Tom was 2nd.
You are correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIA_ ... _standings
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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GPR -A wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:30 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:02 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Leclerc in the Ferrari will have Max in his pocket, then Russell/Ocon in the Mercedes.
To be fair, we have seen almost none of what LeClerc's abilities are. He has beaten a mediocre driver over the season with a decent car AND with some really amazing performances. We will have to reserve the comparison with Max. Max has beaten one of the best drivers on the grid who was his team mate, day in day out in qualifying and over a season in 2018 (anyone talking about Ric DNFs should use the same template for 2017 comparisons). So, until LeClerc goes out there and delivers the goods, first, by beating his own team mate and then taking his car to deserving results, he wouldn't be in a position to be compared with Max. There is no doubt the kid is a great talent. Let's wait.

Well, Ocon doesn't excite anyone that much. He might be good, but there hasn't been an outstanding performance from him until now.

Russell hasn't turned a wheel in F1 yet. He looks to be no different than LeClerc. Exciting times ahead!
You not watch any of the feeder series ?

Leclerc won the F2 title easily as a rookie.
He won the GP3 title, as a rookie.

How many drivers in history have done that?
Then add the performances he has done at Sauber, it looks like in a Ferrari he will be epic.
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:30 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:02 pm


Leclerc in the Ferrari will have Max in his pocket, then Russell/Ocon in the Mercedes.
To be fair, we have seen almost none of what LeClerc's abilities are. He has beaten a mediocre driver over the season with a decent car AND with some really amazing performances. We will have to reserve the comparison with Max. Max has beaten one of the best drivers on the grid who was his team mate, day in day out in qualifying and over a season in 2018 (anyone talking about Ric DNFs should use the same template for 2017 comparisons). So, until LeClerc goes out there and delivers the goods, first, by beating his own team mate and then taking his car to deserving results, he wouldn't be in a position to be compared with Max. There is no doubt the kid is a great talent. Let's wait.

Well, Ocon doesn't excite anyone that much. He might be good, but there hasn't been an outstanding performance from him until now.

Russell hasn't turned a wheel in F1 yet. He looks to be no different than LeClerc. Exciting times ahead!
You not watch any of the feeder series ?

Leclerc won the F2 title easily as a rookie.
He won the GP3 title, as a rookie.

How many drivers in history have done that?
Then add the performances he has done at Sauber, it looks like in a Ferrari he will be epic.
I also know that Maldonado and Palmer are also GP2/F2 champions! Guess what, Fernando Alonso had finished 4th in Formula 3000, which was his last series before joining F1!

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:15 pm
GrandAxe wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:41 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:39 pm
Max is as fast as Hamilton but he is still like Hamilton was back in 2007 - trying to do it all NOW rather than playing the long game. Hamilton matured in to the complete racing driver. Max can do the same and, if/when he does, he will be every bit as imposing a force as Hamilton is now. Max in the current Ferrari / Mercedes would have been a total handful for any driver to deal with.

Max can be the future - if he just gets his head down and realises that titles aren't won in a single corner.
Comparing Max to Lewis is a real stretch. Max is quick, but that's all.

Lewis only made mistakes in the year that there was a lot of insider whispering at McLaren as well as bad luck with steward decisions which made him think he was being picked on for racial reasons (hence his famous Alli G quip). Even then, he still performed at a much higher level than Max ever has.

If Max doesn't address his mindset, he might never win a WDC - which is a season long high pressure event. He has fallen apart on numerous occasions, even without yet facing a stern test of any kind, just track incidents with Vettel, Bottas, Kimi etc.

Max has never won a WDC in any lower formula racing series, talk less F1; his best position in a championship to date is 3rd behind Ocon (2nd) and Tom Blomqvist (championship winner) in Formula 3 (2014).
Only after he's won a couple of WDC's can we begin comparing him to the likes of Vettel, Alonso, Lewis, or even Kimi.
I believe Ocon won that Formula 3 title. Tom was 2nd.
Cheers.

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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GPR -A wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:36 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:22 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:30 pm
To be fair, we have seen almost none of what LeClerc's abilities are. He has beaten a mediocre driver over the season with a decent car AND with some really amazing performances. We will have to reserve the comparison with Max. Max has beaten one of the best drivers on the grid who was his team mate, day in day out in qualifying and over a season in 2018 (anyone talking about Ric DNFs should use the same template for 2017 comparisons). So, until LeClerc goes out there and delivers the goods, first, by beating his own team mate and then taking his car to deserving results, he wouldn't be in a position to be compared with Max. There is no doubt the kid is a great talent. Let's wait.

Well, Ocon doesn't excite anyone that much. He might be good, but there hasn't been an outstanding performance from him until now.

Russell hasn't turned a wheel in F1 yet. He looks to be no different than LeClerc. Exciting times ahead!
You not watch any of the feeder series ?

Leclerc won the F2 title easily as a rookie.
He won the GP3 title, as a rookie.

How many drivers in history have done that?
Then add the performances he has done at Sauber, it looks like in a Ferrari he will be epic.
I also know that Maldonado and Palmer are also GP2/F2 champions! Guess what, Fernando Alonso had finished 4th in Formula 3000, which was his last series before joining F1!
I guess you missed out the part that I said as a rookie.
Pastor and Jolyon took 4 YEARS to win that title. Not many people hang around for 4yrs in GP2/F2 unless they have serious backing, and that same backing gets them in to F1.
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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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This race had a bit of everything, some mixed up strategies, talking points with regards Hulkenberg and the halo, some good overtakes, Alonso retiring with a totally fitting donut session with Seb and Lewis, Kimis` car going dead...

In my opinion Leclerc is going to be a realistic contender for the title next year, his driving style [very smooth] seems to suit the hybrid cars, I think Seb has had it relatively easy with Kimi* [no disrepect intended] as his teamate but could well be in for a far closer intra team battle next year.

*I know Kimi started to perform better in the second half of the season but it was to late by then!

Not sure if this has been posted but here are the final qualifying head to head results: From/credit Sky Sports.

Mercedes

Final score: Lewis Hamilton 15-6 Valtteri Bottas
Average gap: -0.171s for Hamilton

Ferrari

Final score: Sebastian Vettel 17-4 Kimi Raikkonen
Average gap: -0.256 for Vettel

Red Bull

Final score: Max Verstappen 15-5 Daniel Ricciardo
Average gap: -0.145 for Verstappen

Renault

Final score: Nico Hulkenberg 13-8 Carlos Sainz
Average gap: -0.101 for Hulkenberg

Haas

Final score: Romain Grosjean 11-8 Kevin Magnussen
Average gap: -0.253 for Grosjean

Force India

Final score: Esteban Ocon 16-5 Sergio Perez
Average gap: -0.115 for Ocon

McLaren

Final score: Fernando Alonso 21-0 Stoffel Vandoorne
Average gap: -0.392 for Alonso

Sauber

Final score: Charles Leclerc 17-4 Marcus Ericsson
Average gap: -0.510 for Leclerc

Toro Rosso

Final score: Pierre Gasly 13-6 Brendon Hartley
Average gap: -0.118 for Gasly

Williams

Final score: Sergey Sirotkin 12-8 Lance Stroll
Average gap: -0.066 for Sirotkin

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Re: 2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:10 pm
Sieper wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:36 am
A lot of people here really hoping Max to fail. Even pre-emptive petulance strikes have been launched already I see. Nice. I get so sick of it, it is so utterly condescending and why must those kind of terms be used every time, even if they did not happen and are totally off topic in this Abu Dhabi 2018 GP topic. Please keep them to your chest. I am confident you will find more then enough opportunity to empty the them onto next years race topics.
No one wants him to fail, so stop reading into posts what you want to read into them. I'm sorry you don't like the word Petulant, but that's just who/what max is! Four years into his career and he acts the same way he did on day one.
Petulance - the quality of being childishly sulky or bad-tempered.
And this is on topic even for Abu Dhabi, listen to the team radio highlights where his engineer gave him a verbal check yourself. IMO, everyone is getting tired of his attitude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkErT0wmB-w
I can also use condescending wording for many other drivers, but I don’t make it my hobby to do so, and quite frankly, there are more then enough forums already infested with people who indeed also choose to leave the H out (and rightfully so) when they add IMO to a sentence.

Maybe it should be a rule on Any serious F1 forum, no use of words like petulant, throw toy out of pram, princess, child, delusional, aluminium hat, moron, idiot, stupid, mad, retarded etc. Etc. All those wording that only serves to strike out at the person you are digitally conversing with or are describing. As soon as you use them the argument should be considered lost.

The rest of this forum is very good, I learn stuff on a daily basis here but these race thread often make me feel miserable, and Yes, I do feel it is the intention of Some of these Posts, to make others feel miserable.
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