2019 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Oct 11 - 13

[Jester Maroc]

SKY just brought up a brilliant point.
FP3 COULD be qualifying yet the cars won’t be in parc ferme.

My question is that if there is no qualifying exactly when WILL the cars go into it?

I think there will not be any FP3. And as yeslistener mentioned its FP2 classification that will determine starting grid.
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 2304348160

[Restomaniac]

SKY just brought up a brilliant point.
FP3 COULD be qualifying yet the cars won’t be in parc ferme.

My question is that if there is no qualifying exactly when WILL the cars go into it?

I think there will not be any FP3. And as yeslistener mentioned its FP2 classification that will determine starting grid.
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 2304348160

I understand that. That wasn’t my point or question.
I do think you have miss-read that notification though. Qualy is supposed to be on Sunday AM.

[Sevach]

Anyone has the records of tire usage in this session?

Ferrari will need a lot from it's new engine to be in the fight, looks Mercedes all the way.
The Japan special Honda seems like a good step.

[Jester Maroc]

SKY just brought up a brilliant point.
FP3 COULD be qualifying yet the cars won’t be in parc ferme.

My question is that if there is no qualifying exactly when WILL the cars go into it?

I think there will not be any FP3. And as yeslistener mentioned its FP2 classification that will determine starting grid.
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 2304348160

I understand that. That wasn’t my point or question.
I do think you have miss-read that notification though. Qualy is supposed to be on Sunday AM.

LOL, I didn't but I can see why you would think I did. I should have been clearer with my post.

IF no qualifying on Sunday due to weather - then FP2 classification = starting grid.

I am not sure about the FP3 not happening, but according to the FIA statement all Saturday activities have been cancelled, but if weather allows qualifying will happen on Sunday morning. I guess therefore that FP3 has been scrubbed.

[Restomaniac]

I think there will not be any FP3. And as yeslistener mentioned its FP2 classification that will determine starting grid.
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 2304348160

I understand that. That wasn’t my point or question.
I do think you have miss-read that notification though. Qualy is supposed to be on Sunday AM.

LOL, I didn't but I can see why you would think I did. I should have been clearer with my post.

IF no qualifying on Sunday due to weather - then FP2 classification = starting grid.

I am not sure about the FP3 not happening, but according to the FIA statement all Saturday activities have been cancelled, but if weather allows qualifying will happen on Sunday morning. I guess therefore that FP3 has been scrubbed.

Indeed. Cars are not in parc ferme right now obviously as teams will have Friday engines and Gearboxes in. Without FP3 and Qualy tomorrow and a possibility of no Qualy at all. When exactly would the cars go into parc ferme?

Remember that parc ferme doesn’t start until a car leaves the pits the first time during Qualy.

[Jester Maroc]

I understand that. That wasn’t my point or question.
I do think you have miss-read that notification though. Qualy is supposed to be on Sunday AM.

LOL, I didn't but I can see why you would think I did. I should have been clearer with my post.

IF no qualifying on Sunday due to weather - then FP2 classification = starting grid.

I am not sure about the FP3 not happening, but according to the FIA statement all Saturday activities have been cancelled, but if weather allows qualifying will happen on Sunday morning. I guess therefore that FP3 has been scrubbed.

Indeed. Cars are not in parc ferme right now obviously as teams will have Friday engines and Gearboxes in. Without FP3 and Qualy tomorrow and a possibility of no Qualy at all. When exactly would the cars go into parc ferme?

Remember that parc ferme doesn’t start until a car leaves the pits the first time during Qualy.

I am not sure, this is probably uncharted waters for the stewards as well.

However, I did have a quick look in the FIA regulations, and "During the period commencing fifteen minutes prior to and ending five minutes after every practice session and the period between the commencement of the formation lap which immediately precedes the race and the time when the last car enters the parc fermé". So according to that parc ferme is in effect right now?

The regulations does not stipulate the duration of the post practice parc ferme.

[basti313]

LOL, I didn't but I can see why you would think I did. I should have been clearer with my post.

IF no qualifying on Sunday due to weather - then FP2 classification = starting grid.

I am not sure about the FP3 not happening, but according to the FIA statement all Saturday activities have been cancelled, but if weather allows qualifying will happen on Sunday morning. I guess therefore that FP3 has been scrubbed.

Indeed. Cars are not in parc ferme right now obviously as teams will have Friday engines and Gearboxes in. Without FP3 and Qualy tomorrow and a possibility of no Qualy at all. When exactly would the cars go into parc ferme?

Remember that parc ferme doesn’t start until a car leaves the pits the first time during Qualy.

I am not sure, this is probably uncharted waters for the stewards as well.

However, I did have a quick look in the FIA regulations, and "During the period commencing fifteen minutes prior to and ending five minutes after every practice session and the period between the commencement of the formation lap which immediately precedes the race and the time when the last car enters the parc fermé". So according to that parc ferme is in effect right now?

The regulations does not stipulate the duration of the post practice parc ferme.

I have no clue where you took that quote from the rules.

The FIA sporting regulations are very clear. If you look at the 2019 rules, page 26, §34.2, you will see that the cars will be in parc fermé at the end of Q1. So even if no car can run in Q1 due to bad conditions they will simply let the clock run under red flag and after this all cars are in parc fermé.

So the difficult thing will be how to work out a good setup: In the morning the track might be wet, at least green. Maybe even with rain. So they have to gamble on having a setup that works in Q with a little bit more downforce or if they set up purely for the race which will be dry.

[Restomaniac]

Indeed. Cars are not in parc ferme right now obviously as teams will have Friday engines and Gearboxes in. Without FP3 and Qualy tomorrow and a possibility of no Qualy at all. When exactly would the cars go into parc ferme?

Remember that parc ferme doesn’t start until a car leaves the pits the first time during Qualy.

I am not sure, this is probably uncharted waters for the stewards as well.

However, I did have a quick look in the FIA regulations, and "During the period commencing fifteen minutes prior to and ending five minutes after every practice session and the period between the commencement of the formation lap which immediately precedes the race and the time when the last car enters the parc fermé". So according to that parc ferme is in effect right now?

The regulations does not stipulate the duration of the post practice parc ferme.

I have no clue where you took that quote from the rules.

The FIA sporting regulations are very clear. If you look at the 2019 rules, page 26, §34.2, you will see that the cars will be in parc fermé at the end of Q1. So even if no car can run in Q1 due to bad conditions they will simply let the clock run under red flag and after this all cars are in parc fermé.

So the difficult thing will be how to work out a good setup: In the morning the track might be wet, at least green. Maybe even with rain. So they have to gamble on having a setup that works in Q with a little bit more downforce or if they set up purely for the race which will be dry.

So they will use Q1 as a ‘catch-all’. Good point I’d missed that.

[Jester Maroc]

Indeed. Cars are not in parc ferme right now obviously as teams will have Friday engines and Gearboxes in. Without FP3 and Qualy tomorrow and a possibility of no Qualy at all. When exactly would the cars go into parc ferme?

Remember that parc ferme doesn’t start until a car leaves the pits the first time during Qualy.

I am not sure, this is probably uncharted waters for the stewards as well.

However, I did have a quick look in the FIA regulations, and "During the period commencing fifteen minutes prior to and ending five minutes after every practice session and the period between the commencement of the formation lap which immediately precedes the race and the time when the last car enters the parc fermé". So according to that parc ferme is in effect right now?

The regulations does not stipulate the duration of the post practice parc ferme.

I have no clue where you took that quote from the rules.

The FIA sporting regulations are very clear. If you look at the 2019 rules, page 26, §34.2, you will see that the cars will be in parc fermé at the end of Q1. So even if no car can run in Q1 due to bad conditions they will simply let the clock run under red flag and after this all cars are in parc fermé.

So the difficult thing will be how to work out a good setup: In the morning the track might be wet, at least green. Maybe even with rain. So they have to gamble on having a setup that works in Q with a little bit more downforce or if they set up purely for the race which will be dry.

Page 15 - 22.7

LOL, and I now realize my mistake. Disregard my post completely!

[LM10]

So did the teams go full bean, knowing qualifying cancelation is a possibility? Looking at the times I would say no because 2017 pole lap was almost half a second faster than today's fastest lap by Bottas. Last year's pole was as fast as today's fastest lap, but conditions weren't that good in 2018 with incoming rain.

Let's say qualifying will be cancelled and FP2 times will make up starting grid. What about engines? Were they even using the friday engines and if yes I assume it will be possible to change them to the new specs?

So many questions.

[henry]

My recollection is that the quali-race Parc Fermé rule was brought in to prevent the teams building qualifying specials. I don’t think there is any risk of that for this race so I don’t think this is an issue.

[richardn]

I think Sunday qualification cancellation is a more of a probability than a possibility. Once the typhoon subsides and it is safe to venture out on the track, there will likely be a LOT of clearing up to do.

[Jolle]

I assume cars will be placed in parc ferme at the time the new qualifing (Sunday morning) will start. If this one is also cancelled, cars will remain in this state until the race. Teams now have a choice to build up a racing car if they think the Q is cancelled too or the normal Q mode if they think it’s on. Will be an interesting race one way or the other.

[NathanOlder]

I think there will not be any FP3. And as yeslistener mentioned its FP2 classification that will determine starting grid.
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 2304348160

I understand that. That wasn’t my point or question.
I do think you have miss-read that notification though. Qualy is supposed to be on Sunday AM.

LOL, I didn't but I can see why you would think I did. I should have been clearer with my post.

IF no qualifying on Sunday due to weather - then FP2 classification = starting grid.

I am not sure about the FP3 not happening, but according to the FIA statement all Saturday activities have been cancelled, but if weather allows qualifying will happen on Sunday morning. I guess therefore that FP3 has been scrubbed.

Surely none of it matters, because if they cant qualify, chances are they cant race 4hrs later. So its all pointless

[Espresso]

I am not sure, this is probably uncharted waters for the stewards as well.

However, I did have a quick look in the FIA regulations, and "During the period commencing fifteen minutes prior to and ending five minutes after every practice session and the period between the commencement of the formation lap which immediately precedes the race and the time when the last car enters the parc fermé". So according to that parc ferme is in effect right now?

The regulations does not stipulate the duration of the post practice parc ferme.

Suzuka has moved qualifying before (2004 en 2010) when it was hit by a Tyfoon. So it is not unchartered territory. Just not stipulated within the regulations. Giving the steward 'freedom' to act on the situations.

Parc Fermé ended 5 minutes after FP2, as a Qualifying is planned on Sunday morning.

The 2nd last Parc Fermé period starts 15 minutes befory qualifying end 5 minutes after qualifying.
(After qualifying cars have to enter the 'Parc Fermé Area' when there grid position is established and are still under the 'Parc Fermé conditions')

The last Parc Fermé period (should overlap) the previous and goes into effect to moment the last car from qualifying enters the Parc Fermé and this period continues untill the formation lap is started.

(Just to clarify: Parc Fermé means 'no changes to the car are allowed'. Putting them in a secluded area is just to prevent naughty teams secretly modifying the car)

P.S. FP3 has been scrubbed in total, teams use(d) the tyres planned for FP3 in FP2 or save them for qualifying.