2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Scorpaguy
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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bill shoe wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:37 pm
Scorpaguy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:12 pm
The earth was much warmer on a number of occasions, most notably the periods of 700MYA and 50MYA.
And Bernie refused to cancel any race during any of those years :lol: .
Bill Shoe...that retort deserves a virtual beer. Cheers =D>

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TAG
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:06 pm
It seems as if I am to be the butt of abuse for stating actual facts. There is no need for me to direct others to papers etc as many papers have been written for and against the subject. I am not claiming that there is not warming, but what I am saying is that it is a natural and cyclical event in the formation and evolution of the earth. and yes, there are many articles about some of the arctic glaciers actually growing and only the other day, there was news that a glacier in patagonia was growing but the reasons were not known.
As this is an open forum, I am as entitled as anyone to express my views and knowledge, and if some dont like it....tough ! But no need for orders to "step back".
Lets agree to disagree, but do leave yourself open to other educated viewpoints.
You are selling your opinions as being equal to my facts. You are wrong on that, and you post no data to back up your position about climate change. Now you back pedal in the face of having nothing substantive to offer yet you still hold that your information that you pulled from who knows where ais just as valid as factual information peer reviewed scientific studied done worldwide. The question of climate change is that the increase of CO2 release into the atmosphere coupled with the massive deforestation of the planet and has shifted the GLOBAL average temperature enough to markedly increase the rate at which the polar ice caps are melting, thereby causing rising sea levels and fundamentally changing the climate. It's not much, it's a matter of 1 or 2 c that makes this difference. The research I linked shows that CO2 increased generation over the years is the primary reason. This isn't up for debate, so show data or back away. Because being the butt of abuse isn't for having a position, it's for having a position that is wrong and choosing to sell it here as being scientific fact.

Yes climate changes over the millennia, did you know that Africa and South America were once part of the same continent and that ostriches and emus are related? It has absolutely nothing to do with the current climate change situation. Clearly you haven't read anything shared, you don't need to, you know better and you don't need to share your scientific peer reviewed published content because, it's all out there.

Got it. Enough on this from me.

Now; Excuse me while I go laugh for a half hour.
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TimW
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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It always stuns me that people use the argument that there were many climate changes over the evolution of the earth, when those climate changes would devastate human society if they would occur now.

Furthermore we all see the human induced global warming predictions from the 70's / 80's coming true every day, and still people ignore the facts. Normally if experiments give results in line with the hypothesis, that gives the hypothesis some credibility.....

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Even if the anthropogenic climate change hypothesis is incorrect, there is still the very real issue of resource wastage and environmental damage / species extinction that is real. Some seem to think that it's ok to maintain environmentally damaging lifestyles, presumably because they don't like the idea of changing. The big issue is that several billion people look at western lifestyles and think "I'd like some of that" (because it's advertised to them, of course). If all of those people were able to have that lifestyle, we'd destroy the planet, environmentally speaking.
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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natural climate change is always here - and has killed millions in historical (ie recent) times
but no-one is saying that manmade climate change doesn't exist
(though at school we were taught that climate didn't change except that man was probably causing global cooling)

there's continuous fakery in temperature measurements - to make the warmist testimony look neat
eg NOAA and others refuse to adjust their 'measurements' even for manmade interference like building stuff nearby
one frequent poster here has justified this as necessary - at least he's being honest
until recently the year 1800 was the datum for judging warming - now suddenly it's become 1850 (to make things seem worse)

us oldies have been lied to so much we are revolted by the new fashion for people believing what they're told
eg for 100 years there was expert consensus (in oceanography) enforcing the doctrine that 'rogue waves' didn't exist
then 20 years ago (introduction of satellite-based radar measuring waves) the expert consensus was destroyed overnight

maybe some of our posters have hands-on knowledge of events in Australia ?
and presumably those planting trillions of trees in temperate countries should include big fire-breaks

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TAG
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:05 pm
natural climate change is always here - and has killed millions in historical (ie recent) times
but no-one is saying that manmade climate change doesn't exist
(though at school we were taught that climate didn't change except that man was probably causing global cooling)

there's continuous fakery in temperature measurements - to make the warmist testimony look neat
eg NOAA and others refuse to adjust their 'measurements' even for manmade interference like building stuff nearby
one frequent poster here has justified this as necessary - at least he's being honest
until recently the year 1800 was the datum for judging warming - now suddenly it's become 1850 (to make things seem worse)

us oldies have been lied to so much we are revolted by the new fashion for people believing what they're told
eg for 100 years there was expert consensus (in oceanography) enforcing the doctrine that 'rogue waves' didn't exist
then 20 years ago (introduction of satellite-based radar measuring waves) the expert consensus was destroyed overnight

maybe some of our posters have hands-on knowledge of events in Australia ?
and presumably those planting trillions of trees in temperate countries should include big fire-breaks
Not sure what you're position here is, but to take your rogue wave example. That's is scientific methodology in process. You position an idea and if other people can't shoot your idea down with their data, and every experiment and measurement that you provide supports your idea, then that idea becomes the de facto prevailing theory. It doesn't mean that someone can't come up later with new data to prove otherwise, such as the rogue waves.

Temperature readings are for a GLOBAL average, if you think that building near by causes a shift in a global average with thousands of readings to affect data collected at a global scale.

The top ten warmest GLOBAL AVERAGE TEMPERATURE recorded years on record have all occurred in the last two decades.

Rank Year Anomaly °C Anomaly °F
1 2016 0.94 1.69
2 2015 0.90 1.62
3 2017 0.84 1.51
4 2018 0.77 1.39
5 2014 0.74 1.33
6 2010 0.70 1.26
7 2013 0.66 1.19
8 2005 0.65 1.17
9 2009 0.64 1.15
10 1998 0.63 1.13

This is fact. If it's coming from some magical "cycle" that's been happening for millennia in our planet then it is up to the people making the claims as such to prove what the cycle is what is causing it and provide the historical data and how they came to that data. AKA Scientific peer review. Something which I've seen no one provide here. A curious coincidence I would say.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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TAG
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Image

Interestingly enough, the only dip here in the last decade was during the industrial revolution, where we were spewing out so much crap into the air that it blocked out the sun causing a dip in the global average. We're not talking about much here, moving the needle just 1 or 2 degrees changes things.

Those changes are for the better in some regions and for the worse in others. Unfortunately we've built entire cities that will be under water on a regular basis within the next 50 years if the current trend continues. But hell I don't live in one of those cities and all I want it V12 engines back in F1, so if it doesn't affect me, it doesn't exist or it can't possibly be real.

:)
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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izzy
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:05 pm
natural climate change is always here - and has killed millions in historical (ie recent) times
but no-one is saying that manmade climate change doesn't exist
(though at school we were taught that climate didn't change except that man was probably causing global cooling)

there's continuous fakery in temperature measurements - to make the warmist testimony look neat
eg NOAA and others refuse to adjust their 'measurements' even for manmade interference like building stuff nearby
one frequent poster here has justified this as necessary - at least he's being honest
until recently the year 1800 was the datum for judging warming - now suddenly it's become 1850 (to make things seem worse)

us oldies have been lied to so much we are revolted by the new fashion for people believing what they're told
eg for 100 years there was expert consensus (in oceanography) enforcing the doctrine that 'rogue waves' didn't exist
then 20 years ago (introduction of satellite-based radar measuring waves) the expert consensus was destroyed overnight
i suppose there can be an age factor, but it's that young people don't have to remember a few facts, we look stuff up all the time. So when i search "climate change evidence" i get lots and lots of evidence! Apparently our brains have different proportions because of using them differently like this. So i have plenty of choice and i see good and bad sources and i can pick for example the UK Met Office, who explain:
How are humans changing the climate?
In the 11,000 years before the Industrial Revolution, the average temperature across the world was stable at around 14°C. The Industrial Revolution began in the mid-1800s when humans began to burn fossil fuels such as coal, oil, and gas for fuel.
Burning fossil fuels produces energy, but also releases greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous monoxide into the air. Over time, large quantities of these gases have built up in the atmosphere.
For example, the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere rose by 40% during the 20th and 21st century and is now over 400ppm (parts per million). This level of carbon dioxide is higher than at any time in the past 800,000 years.
See? so it's the suddenly rapid rate of change that's the big red flag, as @TAG is showing perfectly in that graph

AJI
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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I'm going to answer the OP's original question as that seems to happen less and less these days...
There is no threat to the OZ GP due to the current fires.
As to whether F1 is potentially about to have an existential crisis due it being the pinnacle of motorsport and still using liquid hydrocarbon for fuel is for another topic, and as to whether climate change is man made or otherwise is for a forum that doesn't have f1technical in its title.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Interestingly, the whole Australian GP could be used as a platform to raise money from public donations and sponsors donating money or perhaps even going so far to donate 50% of all money raised during the GP weekend to the fires and aftermath in a special funds.

still, that won't change that the same PM is still in charge there.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Webber2011
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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I've been to the Aus GP many times.

There's an annual group of protesters that call themselves "Save Albert Park Lake" or some such.
Basically a bunch of old hippies trying to save the ducks on the lake as far as I can gather 😂

There's no disruption, just a few placards outside the main entrance.

This year I wouldn't be surprised to see the climate change groups showing up.
They tend to be pretty peaceful, same as the regular mob, so I can't envision it making much difference at the track itself.
(Unless the fringe lunatics turn up and start chaining themselves to vehicles trying to enter the track of course 😂😂😂)

What might have an effect is if the media decide to grab it and run with it.
At the moment there's plenty of nonsense on Aus tv.
Emotions are running high with the bushfires, and the media are keen to keep the ratings comming in.

If I were part of the media team for the GP I'd get in before they do, and use the race to promote a fundraiser for bush fire relief.
Maybe have donation collection point throughout the track.
(At the gates would never work, you need the race goers to get inside and spend a bit so they have change in their pockets)

It's also a huge opportunity to promote the incredible efficiency of these hybrid PU's.
If the commentary crew did a few segments every day dedicated to that, (and promote the fundraiser), it might even convince a % of those opposed to the race that F1 isn't the crazy gas guzzler some would have us believe.

Id tend to look at this as a positive and an opportunity as opposed to something to be scared of.

If it's handled well there's no reason F1 shouldn't come out a winner in all this 😉👍😉👍

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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TAG wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:40 pm
This is fact. If it's coming from some magical "cycle" that's been happening for millennia in our planet then it is up to the people making the claims as such to prove what the cycle is what is causing it and provide the historical data and how they came to that data. AKA Scientific peer review. Something which I've seen no one provide here. A curious coincidence I would say.
I fail to understand what you're trying to argue here. What is your point? That because temperatures are increasing, that it must be in fact caused by mankind (looking at ~100 years of data over Earth's 4.5 billion lifespan)?

Has earth ever had "spikes" of increase in temperatures over its lifespan? In the last 200 years? 500? 1000? 10'000? 100'000? 1 million years? Yes, no?

Has the sun always been consistent? What about earth's eccentricity?
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TAG
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Phil wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:00 pm
TAG wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:40 pm
This is fact. If it's coming from some magical "cycle" that's been happening for millennia in our planet then it is up to the people making the claims as such to prove what the cycle is what is causing it and provide the historical data and how they came to that data. AKA Scientific peer review. Something which I've seen no one provide here. A curious coincidence I would say.
I fail to understand what you're trying to argue here. What is your point? That because temperatures are increasing, that it must be in fact caused by mankind (looking at ~100 years of data over Earth's 4.5 billion lifespan)?

Has earth ever had "spikes" of increase in temperatures over its lifespan? In the last 200 years? 500? 1000? 10'000? 100'000? 1 million years? Yes, no?

Has the sun always been consistent? What about earth's eccentricity?
Excellent points, now show me the scientific data that supports these comments. :)

I'm not a scientist, I have read the data which if you had looked into as well, does without a shadow of a doubt show the current rise of CO2 is a human creation.

Read it, I encourage you, instead of pretending to provide data that muddies water without any scientific proof at to why climate change IS NOT a direct cause of man made output. Show me your documentation that's scientifically published and peer reviewed and I promise you I'll read it.

I bet you'll not provide me one link.

Here, spend some time perusing through this.

Today, CO2 levels are 40 percent higher than they were before the Industrial Revolution began; they have risen from 280 parts per million in the 18th century to over 400 ppm in 2015 and are on track to reach 410 ppm this spring.
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f1jcw
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:30 pm
Even if the anthropogenic climate change hypothesis is incorrect, there is still the very real issue of resource wastage and environmental damage / species extinction that is real. Some seem to think that it's ok to maintain environmentally damaging lifestyles, presumably because they don't like the idea of changing. The big issue is that several billion people look at western lifestyles and think "I'd like some of that" (because it's advertised to them, of course). If all of those people were able to have that lifestyle, we'd destroy the planet, environmentally speaking.
This is my thoughts aswell, very well described.

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dren
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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TAG wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:09 pm
I'm not a scientist, I have read the data which if you had looked into as well, does without a shadow of a doubt show the current rise of CO2 is a human creation.
Perhaps it is, maybe it isn't. Either way, CO2 is not a pollutant. It's comical to think otherwise, even at the extremely minute quantities that it exists in the air. My trees don't seem to mind. You might want to think twice before you crack that next beer.
Honda!