Turkish GP announced!!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Didnt recall any arguments whether it was flat or not Turn 8 is about the sustained G-forces pretty much.
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Shrieker
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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'T8 flat easy' should become a meme at this point lol :lol:
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Juzh
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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well at least max did it on his PB in fp2.


I haven't checked other drivers apart from leclerc's p2 who very nearly did it and sainz, who even said in an interview he did, but after checking it he was clearly not even close (on his PB anyway).

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Shrieker
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Yes, apparently he has. Was this also the fastest lap of the weekend ? Was about to ask for it.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:15 pm
well at least max did it on his PB in fp2.


I haven't checked other drivers apart from leclerc's p2 who very nearly did it and sainz, who even said in an interview he did, but after checking it he was clearly not even close (on his PB anyway).
Strange that video - the throttle bar shows 100% throttle but as he exits T8 he accelerates by some 25km/h before taking 8th gear. He's doing 267km/h (+/-) in the corner and changes up to 8th at 292km/h after the exit. That suggests either he wasn't at 100% throttle and was holding a throttle % just below 100% or the car was scrubbing so much speed off in the corner that as he exited, it came up to the correct top speed for 7th gear and then he changed up.

I don't think he was flat in T8 as I don't think it would scrub 25km/h.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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nzjrs
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:40 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:15 pm
well at least max did it on his PB in fp2.


I haven't checked other drivers apart from leclerc's p2 who very nearly did it and sainz, who even said in an interview he did, but after checking it he was clearly not even close (on his PB anyway).
Strange that video - the throttle bar shows 100% throttle but as he exits T8 he accelerates by some 25km/h before taking 8th gear. He's doing 267km/h (+/-) in the corner and changes up to 8th at 292km/h after the exit. That suggests either he wasn't at 100% throttle and was holding a throttle % just below 100% or the car was scrubbing so much speed off in the corner that as he exited, it came up to the correct top speed for 7th gear and then he changed up.

I don't think he was flat in T8 as I don't think it would scrub 25km/h.
Could be yeah. For reference this page says the average speed of that corner when flat is/was 270kph https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... BJgEu.html

Just_a_fan
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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nzjrs wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:48 pm
For reference this page says the average speed of that corner when flat is/was 270kph https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... BJgEu.html
That was the average speed in 2011. Today's cars would be quicker in that corner because they have much more grip, as the article notes.

Just listening to Max and looking at the speed readout leads me to think he wasn't flat. By flat I mean 100% throttle for the whole corner. I don't believe they would scrub off 25km/h. They scrub about 10km/h in Pouhon which is a faster corner, for example, with an entry speed of 305km/h, exit of 295km/h.

I would expect a W11 or RB16 to take T8 flat at 290km/h, not 270km/h.

Don't get me wrong, T8 is still a huge ask at 270km/h and 95% throttle. It'd scare me silly! :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Juzh
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:58 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:48 pm
For reference this page says the average speed of that corner when flat is/was 270kph https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... BJgEu.html
That was the average speed in 2011. Today's cars would be quicker in that corner because they have much more grip, as the article notes.

Just listening to Max and looking at the speed readout leads me to think he wasn't flat. By flat I mean 100% throttle for the whole corner. I don't believe they would scrub off 25km/h. They scrub about 10km/h in Pouhon which is a faster corner, for example, with an entry speed of 305km/h, exit of 295km/h.

I would expect a W11 or RB16 to take T8 flat at 290km/h, not 270km/h.

Don't get me wrong, T8 is still a huge ask at 270km/h and 95% throttle. It'd scare me silly! :lol:
First of all it's fp2, power is turned down. Second, ERS is clearly disabled trough corner, and then turned back on immediately at the exit, that's why car gains speed faster after that. Third, run to T9 is severely downhill. 4th, car is heavily loaded during cornering, scrubbing lots of speed, thus ICE at FP2 power levels is just able to keep it steady at around 265-268 kmh. 5th, these cars have so much drag it's not unexpected they're arriving at turn 8 with relatively low entry speed, especially in fp2.

And while, yes, it's true sometimes f1 app telemetry (which is what i use), due to lower refresh rate compared to what we see on halo overlaid telemetry and extra onboard channels, will miss a VERY slight and quick lift, this was not the case here. He's very clearly completely flatout. Normally when f1 app would miss a slight lift this will mean it read 1 or at most 2 kmh higher than what the car is traveling at, not 25 kmh lol. That would render it completely useless.

Sometimes in darker conditions speedometers are visible on steering wheels inside cars, and when you put f1app telemetry next to it they're almost always perfectly matched. So i'm inclined to trust it.

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henry
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:40 pm

I don't think he was flat in T8 as I don't think it would scrub 25km/h.
At Copse this year they were scrubbing about 16kph, e.g. Hamilton entry 313 exit 297. T8 is a similar radius but much longer. I don’t think 25kph is unreasonable.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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henry wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:51 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:40 pm

I don't think he was flat in T8 as I don't think it would scrub 25km/h.
At Copse this year they were scrubbing about 16kph, e.g. Hamilton entry 313 exit 297. T8 is a similar radius but much longer. I don’t think 25kph is unreasonable.
Yes, but in T8 he isn't scrubbing the speed off - it's never there to start with. He enters at 260-270km/h and stays at that speed the whole way around until he accelerates at the exit. He holds an almost constant speed through the corner. So I'm sticking with my "not quite flat" position. :)
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:37 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:58 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:48 pm
For reference this page says the average speed of that corner when flat is/was 270kph https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... BJgEu.html
That was the average speed in 2011. Today's cars would be quicker in that corner because they have much more grip, as the article notes.

Just listening to Max and looking at the speed readout leads me to think he wasn't flat. By flat I mean 100% throttle for the whole corner. I don't believe they would scrub off 25km/h. They scrub about 10km/h in Pouhon which is a faster corner, for example, with an entry speed of 305km/h, exit of 295km/h.

I would expect a W11 or RB16 to take T8 flat at 290km/h, not 270km/h.

Don't get me wrong, T8 is still a huge ask at 270km/h and 95% throttle. It'd scare me silly! :lol:
First of all it's fp2, power is turned down.
Then he's not flat, is he? A turned down power unit is the same as a backed off throttle. If the car is capable of doing the corner in Q3 with 100% throttle, then that's "flat". If he's doing it in an FP session with, say 100bhp less, then it's nowhere near the same thing at all.

Either way, I reckon that car (and the W11 plus possibly others), in Q3 on decent tarmac i.e. not the ice rink they had this time, would be quicker through T8 and thus "flat" is a higher speed than Max did. I reckon they'd be 290km/h through there in a normal Q3 session.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Juzh
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:07 pm
henry wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:51 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:40 pm

I don't think he was flat in T8 as I don't think it would scrub 25km/h.
At Copse this year they were scrubbing about 16kph, e.g. Hamilton entry 313 exit 297. T8 is a similar radius but much longer. I don’t think 25kph is unreasonable.
So I'm sticking with my "not quite flat" position. :)
Dumbest s*** i've read in a while tbh. :lol: :lol:
Sure, disregard everything others point out and stick on your false premise, giving zero actual argument apart from "it's my gut feeling" lol. Why you even having this debate then if you think you know it all from the start? Pointless.

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Juzh
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:11 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:37 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:58 pm


That was the average speed in 2011. Today's cars would be quicker in that corner because they have much more grip, as the article notes.

Just listening to Max and looking at the speed readout leads me to think he wasn't flat. By flat I mean 100% throttle for the whole corner. I don't believe they would scrub off 25km/h. They scrub about 10km/h in Pouhon which is a faster corner, for example, with an entry speed of 305km/h, exit of 295km/h.

I would expect a W11 or RB16 to take T8 flat at 290km/h, not 270km/h.

Don't get me wrong, T8 is still a huge ask at 270km/h and 95% throttle. It'd scare me silly! :lol:
First of all it's fp2, power is turned down.
Then he's not flat, is he? A turned down power unit is the same as a backed off throttle. If the car is capable of doing the corner in Q3 with 100% throttle, then that's "flat". If he's doing it in an FP session with, say 100bhp less, then it's nowhere near the same thing at all.

Either way, I reckon that car (and the W11 plus possibly others), in Q3 on decent tarmac i.e. not the ice rink they had this time, would be quicker through T8 and thus "flat" is a higher speed than Max did. I reckon they'd be 290km/h through there in a normal Q3 session.
You're twisting the debate. Flatout means throttle is pinned and that's it. Obviously in Q3 speed would be much higher in normal conditions, it's not rocket science.

edit. you could say the same thing for alonso's pouhon in 2017. Honda was so weak he could go flat, but in reality he was still slower than mercedes or red bull, or at best about similar speed. Does that also mean he wasn't flatout?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:13 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:07 pm
henry wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:51 pm


At Copse this year they were scrubbing about 16kph, e.g. Hamilton entry 313 exit 297. T8 is a similar radius but much longer. I don’t think 25kph is unreasonable.
So I'm sticking with my "not quite flat" position. :)
Dumbest s*** i've read in a while tbh. :lol: :lol:
Sure, disregard everything others point out and stick on your false premise, giving zero actual argument apart from "it's my gut feeling" lol. Why you even having this debate then if you think you know it all from the start? Pointless.
You resorting to ad hominem doesn't further your position.

I didn't say anything about gut feeling. I pointed out why I think the cars would be faster in realistic conditions and thus Max's FP2 wasn't a true "flat" corner. You disagree and that's fine. That's all part of a grown up discussion. Name calling isn't.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Turkish GP announced!!

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:16 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:11 pm
Juzh wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:37 pm

First of all it's fp2, power is turned down.
Then he's not flat, is he? A turned down power unit is the same as a backed off throttle. If the car is capable of doing the corner in Q3 with 100% throttle, then that's "flat". If he's doing it in an FP session with, say 100bhp less, then it's nowhere near the same thing at all.

Either way, I reckon that car (and the W11 plus possibly others), in Q3 on decent tarmac i.e. not the ice rink they had this time, would be quicker through T8 and thus "flat" is a higher speed than Max did. I reckon they'd be 290km/h through there in a normal Q3 session.
You're twisting the debate. Flatout means throttle is pinned and that's it. Obviously in Q3 speed would be much higher in normal conditions, it's not rocket science.
As I had said previously, I don't think he has the throttle pinned. That's the point I made right at the beginning.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"