2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[Bsowles]

These races are no good for the social life, it would be heaven if they could run them early in the morning so then you've got day to yourself.

I'm in the caribbean and except for the Asian/Oz races, those starting times are really nice. All European races are neatly @09.10; not too early, not to late.

@Wass85
What are you complaining about? Some people wake up at 3am and 6am to catch FP1/FP3, FP2/Quali.
After the quali and race its bedtime starting at 8am.

[Bsowles]

I'm in the caribbean and except for the Asian/Oz races, those starting times are really nice. All European races are neatly @09.10; not too early, not to late.

@Wass85
What are you complaining about? Some people wake up at 3am and 6am to catch FP1/FP3, FP2/Quali.
After the quali and race its bedtime starting at 8am.

[selvam_e2002]

Renault quicker than RB in Monza. Please refer last year Q3 result

Lecrec: 1:19.307 (with loophole in the rule)
Ricciardo: 1:19:839

difference ~.5 second to Ferrari.

RB:1:20.021 Q2 exist for Albon.

Even if they go with less DF, I think Renault should have upper hand.

Albon's first Q3 lap was on target for 1.19.5 before he had to lift for raikkonen crash and subsequent red flag deleted even this lap. He then didnt set another lap due to traffic jam. Verstappen is always 0.3-0.5s faster than albon, so he would fight for pole even and destroy renaults completely.

Let see.. If they have trust in Honda engine they would used Low DF in Belgium however they went for different setup.
They(RB) tried different setup including Low DF however they are not used due to not competitive.

[Sieper]

Renault quicker than RB in Monza. Please refer last year Q3 result

Lecrec: 1:19.307 (with loophole in the rule)
Ricciardo: 1:19:839

difference ~.5 second to Ferrari.

RB:1:20.021 Q2 exist for Albon.

Even if they go with less DF, I think Renault should have upper hand.

Albon's first Q3 lap was on target for 1.19.5 before he had to lift for raikkonen crash and subsequent red flag deleted even this lap. He then didnt set another lap due to traffic jam. Verstappen is always 0.3-0.5s faster than albon, so he would fight for pole even and destroy renaults completely.

Let see.. If they have trust in Honda engine they would used Low DF in Belgium however they went for different setup.
They(RB) tried different setup including Low DF however they are not used due to not competitive.

Now you are just lying. Or you misunderstood. They did went for the low DF at first (and went pretty well) but changed to higher DF (which was detrimental to race pace) because there was a good chance of rain. Then you need all the DF you can get. Merc ran with even more DF. Renault with less. It was Renault that gambled all in on a dry race. And they got it. RBR hedged the bet. If they would have gambled low downforce they might have been able to challenge merc. So they actually trusted the Honda power to push them through the DF and still keep Renault at bay.

[Bsowles]

I'm in the caribbean and except for the Asian/Oz races, those starting times are really nice. All European races are neatly @09.10; not too early, not to late.

@Wass85
What are you complaining about? Some people wake up at 3am and 6am to catch FP1/FP3, FP2/Quali.
After the quali and race its bedtime starting at 8am.

I don’t trust myself to wake up at those hours, so I just keep myself awake most race weekends so I don’t miss anything. Insane, yes! But if you’re a fan, by definition you’re a FANatic.

Enjoy the upcoming weekend, fellas.

[Bsowles]

Sorry for the dupe posts.

[yelistener]

Anyway, days of record setting quali pace are over, unless teams figure a way around engine map change ban. We know highest engine setting in race is worth 1s over normal modes (horner to wolf comment for bottas' fast lap in spain), and quali mode is worth another 1s over this I'd say, so pace will drop significantly.

Predicting no car under 1.21

Come to think of it, we might be seeing ugly 2019 Q3 again, because a tow is more critical now.

The quali mode ban is completely bullshit anyway. I hope this decision gets dismissed in the future, but I also fear that if this decision indeed brings tighter races, FIA might decide to stay with it for a long time lol

[siskue2005]

Anyway, days of record setting quali pace are over, unless teams figure a way around engine map change ban. We know highest engine setting in race is worth 1s over normal modes (horner to wolf comment for bottas' fast lap in spain), and quali mode is worth another 1s over this I'd say, so pace will drop significantly.

Predicting no car under 1.21

Come to think of it, we might be seeing ugly 2019 Q3 again, because a tow is more critical now.

The quali mode ban is completely bullshit anyway. I hope this decision gets dismissed in the future, but I also fear that if this decision indeed brings tighter races, FIA might decide to stay with it for a long time lol

Again, there is no ban on any quali mode

The ban is only for changing the modes from start of quly to race end

[yelistener]

Anyway, days of record setting quali pace are over, unless teams figure a way around engine map change ban. We know highest engine setting in race is worth 1s over normal modes (horner to wolf comment for bottas' fast lap in spain), and quali mode is worth another 1s over this I'd say, so pace will drop significantly.

Predicting no car under 1.21

Come to think of it, we might be seeing ugly 2019 Q3 again, because a tow is more critical now.

The quali mode ban is completely bullshit anyway. I hope this decision gets dismissed in the future, but I also fear that if this decision indeed brings tighter races, FIA might decide to stay with it for a long time lol

Again, there is no ban on any quali mode

The ban is only for changing the modes from start of quly to race end

Yes I know that. Quali pace will see the most significant drop, as it's one of the main target of this rule change.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yea, I have a feeling the podium celebration would end in a riot!

Ferrari could cheat in broad daylight here and FIA wouldn't dare penalize if they want to go home alive!

Same with Reno. It is the FIA and Jean Todt after all.

Renualt? Jean Todt and FIA are Ferrari Loyalists.

They couldn't give two dingle berries about Renault.

[Schippke]

From the looks of things, it is hard to think of anybody else other than Mercedes locking out the front row and cruising to the finish... like a lot of the races so far this year! It was mentioned (or suspected) in Spa that they compromised the setup for the race encase of changing conditions, which never eventuated. So if the conditions are dry for this weekend, which looks to be the case (Sunday there is an increased chance of rain, though late in the day at this stage) no doubt they'll run a more optimal setup for the race.

Red Bull too mentioned that they were striking a balance between a Dry and Wet setup for Spa; Christian Horner made mention of it according to commentators (so take it with a pinch of Salt!). I think they'll be further behind Mercedes here, purely on the power unit side alone... some have mentioned Renault causing them some grief, but I don't see that happening realistically. They might've had a solid race car in Spa, but when the Mercs and Max weren't busy trying to save the tyres to make it to the end, they were consistently pulling away from the rest of the field. I have a suspicion that because Mercedes and Red Bull might've ran compromised setups for the race, they could've been using the tyres more in the corners due to higher downforce levels (again, just a thought!), so that might've played a part... compared to the Renaults running a completely dry setup for the race, enabling them to have better tyre management and wear. Regardless, has to be said the Renault Power Unit seems like a handy bit of kit in a straight line...

... Which leads me to Ferrari! Personally, I think they'll have a better weekend here than in Spa (probably because it can't get much worse!) but again, like the reasons mentioned above, Binotto mentioned they were banking on the potential of a wet race in Spa (compromised higher downforce setup) so as a result that just compounded the lack of pace they now have in a straight line at Spa. In saying that, no doubt it'll be a struggle for them breaking into Q3, but personally I reckon there's a higher chance of that in Monza than in Spa if the conditions remain dry. Charles might score a point or 2 with a bit of luck, though that'll also have to come down to Ferrari having a perfect weekend pitstop and strategy wise; Pains me to say as a Ferrari fan, I don't see that happening as of recent... umm, events.

FInal point with the engine mode 'clarification' that is due in; Personally, I'm not completely against it per say, but at the same time I don't quite understand why it was needed? I really don't think it'll change the pecking order at all, and as others have mentioned, if anything it could cause Mercedes to further extend their advantage over the rest of the field... depending on how the engine manufactures compromise their modes and settings, it might give Ferrari (including Alfa Romeo and Haas) a thread of hope they can eek a tiny bit of pace back on everyone else (doubt it)! I also reckon this 'clarification' or whatever you want to call it, should've been introduced for the start of the 2021 season instead of halfway through this year... it just seems like an attempt in hope of adjusting the pecking order a bit, which will probably end up doing more harm than good.

*AND breath*

[Wass85]

I'm starting to like that Renault PU, does anyone think it sounds very similar to a LMP1 car?

[Maritimer]

I'm starting to like that Renault PU, does anyone think it sounds very similar to a LMP1 car?

A turbo V6 always sounds like a turbo V6, the Gibson V8 some of the teams use is much nicer on the ears. Even the IndyCar engines sound better.

[ispano6]

Ferrari could cheat in broad daylight here and FIA wouldn't dare penalize if they want to go home alive!

Same with Reno. It is the FIA and Jean Todt after all.

Renualt? Jean Todt and FIA are Ferrari Loyalists.

They couldn't give two dingle berries about Renault.

"The FIA is generally known by its French name or initials, even in non-French-speaking countries, but is occasionally rendered as International Automobile Federation."

"Jean Todt is a French former rally driver who went on to become Peugeot Talbot Sport's ..."

2011
Jean Todt: "When I talk to those responsible at Renault they tell me they will go out of F1 if this new engine does not come in 2013. When I talk to Mercedes and Ferrari they ask me to postpone the introduction for a couple of years. They are not against the rules but want them postponed. So in the coming days I will keep up the contacts personally to see where we are," added Jean Todt.

(New engine Formula did in fact come in, Mercedes of course fooling everyone)
Grosjean: I raced with illegal Renault F1 brake bias system in 2015

Oct 2019
"The Renault Formula 1 team acknowledges its now-illegal braking system was a driver aid but was "absolutely convinced" of its legitimacy because it was introduced before this season." They happened to be caught in Japan, at Honda's home turf.

From Autosport:

Abiteboul:

"[Approaching the FIA] is not something we've done because we were absolutely convinced, as further demonstrated, that we were legal.

"And we were legal from a technical perspective."

Abiteboul accepted that "it is a driver aid, but a number of things are a driver aid", highlighting automatic energy recovery system deployment as an example.

"At some point you need to accept there is an element of subjectivity [in the rules]," he added.

"It's been used since so many years that we never thought it could be put into question until what happened presently."

Asked specifically how long Renault has used the system, he replied: "I don't want to go into details but it's not from this season.

"It's from before."

Abiteboul admitted that Renault needs to have stronger processes when establishing the legality of its ideas.

June 2020
Jean Todt: “Beside this, we have had the pleasure of learning about Renault’s decision to continue.”
Sounds pretty accommodating to me.

Aug 2020
Ricciardo had a BRAKE-BY-WIRE issue in Belgium and didn't go out after Q2 but Renault were unusually confident that they would make it to Q3 without even knowing what other teams would set in Q2.

[godlameroso]

Dry weekend, except for potential rain towards the end of the race.