2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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pantherxxx wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:52 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:47 pm
pantherxxx wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:42 pm
"F1 race director Michael Masi has disputed the fact that there was any uncertainty over the Turn 4 situation though – as he said it was clear to drivers that the FIA would only intervene if someone was gaining a clear advantage from it."

Hamilton did gain a clear advantage for going wide for 29 laps, and there's video proof of it. Verstappen should have won the race if the rules were applied!
You act like Lewis was the only driver doing it.
That's not a valid argument. Verstappen didn't do it throughout the race. Only once after he passed Hamilton, which was not even deliberate, while Hamilton gained 0.2 sec advantage/lap for at least 29 laps. Perfect example of a double standard.
Verstappen was perfectly free to grab that advantage as well, seen as the drivers were all told about it before the race. It's no-one else's fault that he didn't. There is zero double standard.

maxxer
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:55 pm
pantherxxx wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:52 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:47 pm


You act like Lewis was the only driver doing it.
That's not a valid argument. Verstappen didn't do it throughout the race. Only once after he passed Hamilton, which was not even deliberate, while Hamilton gained 0.2 sec advantage/lap for at least 29 laps. Perfect example of a double standard.
Verstappen was perfectly free to grab that advantage as well, seen as the drivers were all told about it before the race. It's no-one else's fault that he didn't. There is zero double standard.


guess it was the slide on the exit of Max

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Nobody was free. After the first infringements the stewards should have started warning. You should always aim to keep within the track. If there is no hard enforcing you can miss the corner a few times, you can even take advantage at restarts, outlaps etc. But once you start ignoring the track altogether it is onbvious warnings should have been issued.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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pantherxxx wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:42 pm
"F1 race director Michael Masi has disputed the fact that there was any uncertainty over the Turn 4 situation though – as he said it was clear to drivers that the FIA would only intervene if someone was gaining a clear advantage from it."

Hamilton did gain a clear advantage for going wide for 29 laps, and there's video proof of it. Verstappen should have won the race if the rules were applied!
Advantage is relative as they say. Cutting turn four was allowed so everyone was doing it and thus the advantage to Lewis was zero. It was Verstappen's complacency for not doing it, in fact.

On the other hand, when we look at the act of overtaking off track then, the relative advantage is compared to the guy you are overtaking, and thus it is clear it is a glaring act against the spirit of racing.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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I can't believe the amount of people that see it as Lewis cheating and Max being robbed. Even after Masi and multiple drivers confirmed what was said in the driver's briefing beforehand.
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DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:47 pm
I can't believe the amount of people that see it as Lewis cheating and Max being robbed. Even after Masi and multiple drivers confirmed what was said in the driver's briefing beforehand.
Well, yeah, i cant really believe how many people find it OK that track limits are applied selectively (in the sense of only some corners, not selective in persons), and that the race control informs upfront which corners they police and which ones they wont.

That has nothing to do with max being robbed of a win or not. I dont think he was, and anyway we would not know how things ended otherwise.

dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:47 pm
I can't believe the amount of people that see it as Lewis cheating and Max being robbed. Even after Masi and multiple drivers confirmed what was said in the driver's briefing beforehand.
It's nothing new! I've been a forum member since 2013, and the number of people who understand the finer points of the rules, has always been miniscule.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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DChemTech wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:54 pm
Well, yeah, i cant really believe how many people find it OK that track limits are applied selectively (in the sense of only some corners, not selective in persons), and that the race control informs upfront which corners they police and which ones they wont.
When you go off at some turns, you lose time, risk damaging the car, or both. At other turns if you go off you might gain a micro advantage, but you compromise yourself in some way, dirty ties, poor traction, compromised line for the next corner etc and thus loose any advantage you got.

they only monitor turns that don't fall into the above.


The only odd thing about this weekend is the different guidelines between practice/qualifying and the race (all the drivers knew). And the fact that they changed their mind mid race.
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Hoffman900
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:56 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:47 pm
I can't believe the amount of people that see it as Lewis cheating and Max being robbed. Even after Masi and multiple drivers confirmed what was said in the driver's briefing beforehand.
It's nothing new! I've been a forum member since 2013, and the number of people who understand the finer points of the rules, has always been miniscule.
This.

F1 is nothing more than a soap opera for most and “my camp” vs “your camp”. Now we have to deal with this until the next race then -insert new drama-

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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If totally nothing wonky went on with ignoring T4 how come it suddenly was being enforced once RBR informed Max to also start abusing track limits.

Why would it then suddenly mean that from that point onwards in fact it could be resulting in a warning. If nothing was amiss, why change?
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dans79
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm
If totally nothing wonky went on with ignoring T4 how come it suddenly was being enforced once RBR informed Max to also start abusing track limits.

Why would it then suddenly mean that from that point onwards in fact it could be resulting in a warning. If nothing was amiss, why change?
Probably because the RBR pitwall called max on the radio and specifically told him to do it. The FIA routinely lets stuff slide, but when you call them out on a worldwide broadcast, they are going to respond.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Sieper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm
If totally nothing wonky went on with ignoring T4 how come it suddenly was being enforced once RBR informed Max to also start abusing track limits.

Why would it then suddenly mean that from that point onwards in fact it could be resulting in a warning. If nothing was amiss, why change?
Max wasn't using the allowed line, Hamilton was. So Horner came on the radio and made a big thing about telling Max to use that line. He did it to try to get the race director to stop Hamilton using that line. Which worked, because the race director did just that. Well done Horner.

But Max could have used that line earlier if he'd been paying attention at the driver's briefing.

None of this affects the outcome of the race because Max's overtake off track was always illegal - has been for years.
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DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:11 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:54 pm
Well, yeah, i cant really believe how many people find it OK that track limits are applied selectively (in the sense of only some corners, not selective in persons), and that the race control informs upfront which corners they police and which ones they wont.
When you go off at some turns, you lose time, risk damaging the car, or both. At other turns if you go off you might gain a micro advantage, but you compromise yourself in some way, dirty ties, poor traction, compromised line for the next corner etc and thus loose any advantage you got.

they only monitor turns that don't fall into the above.


The only odd thing about this weekend is the different guidelines between practice/qualifying and the race (all the drivers knew). And the fact that they changed their mind mid race.
So? I hope most f1 drivers are sufficiently competent to stay within the lines, and there would still be two warnings or so before a penalty applied, so its not like no mistakes are allowed. I dont understand what is so controversial about wanting to see driving between the lines being enforced, without deciding per-race which corners "fall into the above" with all due ambiguity.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Step by step analysis.

Click "show thread" to see the rest of the slides.

You will be surprised... :shock:

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:25 pm
Sieper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm
If totally nothing wonky went on with ignoring T4 how come it suddenly was being enforced once RBR informed Max to also start abusing track limits.

Why would it then suddenly mean that from that point onwards in fact it could be resulting in a warning. If nothing was amiss, why change?
Max wasn't using the allowed line, Hamilton was. So Horner came on the radio and made a big thing about telling Max to use that line. He did it to try to get the race director to stop Hamilton using that line. Which worked, because the race director did just that. Well done Horner.

But Max could have used that line earlier if he'd been paying attention at the driver's briefing.

None of this affects the outcome of the race because Max's overtake off track was always illegal - has been for years.
What has your last sentence to do with my post? Absolutely nothing. I was merely questioning the reasoning some people have about it being absolutely fine to not adhere to track limits. If it was/is why change during the race.

I wasn’t talking about the overtake which was abundantly clear. If you want to talk about that, totally fine, but don’t quote me on it as I wasn’t disputing that.
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