2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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The actual "work" was getting within the magic 0.6xx seconds out of rivazza

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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More racing, I can't believe we have this but in real life now

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Sieper wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:08 pm
I agree, DRS is needed it has brought so many interesting battles. Even these overtakes weren’t that easy imho. Without DRS we would see way less fights.
The point being made I think is there are not fights when you get a free pass .. especially in a slightly better car.
I bet without DRS Bottas would not even have half the points a he scored in his Merc era; check Abu Dhabi 2019.
Same goes for anyone, even Ham and Max.
Last edited by langedweil on Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Magic on, magic off..! Makes quite a difference to tyre heat and to preservation of, doesn’t it?

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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RZS10 wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:25 pm
The actual "work" was getting within the magic 0.6xx seconds out of rivazza
The tow really does make a difference too, but so do nerves. If Tsunoda hadn't spun after the restart he and Max would have been the only two drivers to pass Hamilton racing on track. And they both didn't have DRS to help.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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But neither instance was a "proper" overtake since they came at the (re)start tbf ... wonder whether anyone was able to overtake without DRS in this race

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm
But neither instance was a "proper" overtake since they came at the (re)start tbf ... wonder whether anyone was able to overtake without DRS in this race
Actually, I beg to differ, they were in fact more proper since there was no DRS. They were under green flag and racing conditions.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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ispano6 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:46 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm
But neither instance was a "proper" overtake since they came at the (re)start tbf ... wonder whether anyone was able to overtake without DRS in this race
Actually, I beg to differ, they were in fact more proper since there was no DRS. They were under green flag and racing conditions.
Not "proper" as in coming off the last corner at racing speed having struggled to stay close enough behind the car in front through two fast corners.

The overtake at the start was a pure question of who got the best launch off the line. At a restart, the cars are nose to tail and so basically start in the tow position when the hammer is dropped.

DRS exists because without it, the current cars would struggle to overtake at all. We'd go back to races where cars sat behind each other lap after lap after lap. It was dull as ditch water. DRS is a sticking plaster, yes, but it's better than the alternative.
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e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm
But neither instance was a "proper" overtake since they came at the (re)start tbf ... wonder whether anyone was able to overtake without DRS in this race
There probably wouldn't have been any overtakes at all without DRS apart from the start/restarts. Imola is just one of those tracks where overtaking is very difficult.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:37 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:46 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm
But neither instance was a "proper" overtake since they came at the (re)start tbf ... wonder whether anyone was able to overtake without DRS in this race
Actually, I beg to differ, they were in fact more proper since there was no DRS. They were under green flag and racing conditions.
Not "proper" as in coming off the last corner at racing speed having struggled to stay close enough behind the car in front through two fast corners.

The overtake at the start was a pure question of who got the best launch off the line. At a restart, the cars are nose to tail and so basically start in the tow position when the hammer is dropped.

DRS exists because without it, the current cars would struggle to overtake at all. We'd go back to races where cars sat behind each other lap after lap after lap. It was dull as ditch water. DRS is a sticking plaster, yes, but it's better than the alternative.
IMO people undervalue some of the art of DRS too. Keeping chasing cars just outside 1s behind over the detection line, timing Backmarker overtakes to get / prevent DRS for oneself / chasing cars can be quite impressive.

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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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e30ernest wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:54 am
RZS10 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:29 pm
But neither instance was a "proper" overtake since they came at the (re)start tbf ... wonder whether anyone was able to overtake without DRS in this race
There probably wouldn't have been any overtakes at all without DRS apart from the start/restarts. Imola is just one of those tracks where overtaking is very difficult.
Yep, and during the race weekend formula 1 did a video where they interviewed Fernando about 2005 or 2006 I can't remember when he beat Michael.

He directly said he went slow in the corners that he knew Michael couldn't get past, and then as fast as possible in others, because they were worried about the engine that weekend.
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hollus
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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In that 2005 race, Alonso not only held Schumi for soo many laps by going slower than normal but getting better corner exits in the only places where it mattered, but he even slowed EXTRA to avoid catching lapped cars for the last laps. Those lapped cars where the best chance for Schumi to get close enough where it could allow an overtake.
So Alonso could slow down to the pace of lapped cars and still prevent Schumi from passing. That is how hard it was to pass.
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Stu
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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hUirEYExbN wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:01 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:33 am
Does anyone know how long it has been manditory to have a reverse gear ? When did the FIA add this rule ? 90's ?
In 1988 the F1 annex of the regulations said "All automobiles must have a reverse gear which must be in working order when the car starts the event and which can be operated by the driver when seated normally in the car."

The section wasn't present in 1972's F1 annex, but may have been in a general section I don't have.

According to here: https://www.f1technical.net/articles/24 Reverse was present in 1968, but I'm not sure if that is a rule or just a note about them being present (why would they be present if not mandated?)
I think that the additional annex of 1988 was because they were building gearboxes that ‘technically’ had a reverse gear, but was built down to a point where it was unusable - hence the “operable by the driver when seated in the car”. If you are trying to save every ounce of rotating weight, you could otherwise make your reverse gear from 1/4” aluminium. It would be operable in the paddock/scrutineering bay, but unusable by the driver.
Common sense is not as common as stupidity, but it is better to be uninformed than to be mis-informed...

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:37 pm
...

Not "proper" as in coming off the last corner at racing speed having struggled to stay close enough behind the car in front through two fast corners.

The overtake at the start was a pure question of who got the best launch off the line. At a restart, the cars are nose to tail and so basically start in the tow position when the hammer is dropped.

DRS exists because without it, the current cars would struggle to overtake at all. We'd go back to races where cars sat behind each other lap after lap after lap. It was dull as ditch water. DRS is a sticking plaster, yes, but it's better than the alternative.
An overtake on track IS proper no ifs and or buts. You don't need corners to call a pass on a straight a proper overtake, that is just plain nonsense. The only non-proper overtake is one in the pits,.

All I've pointed out is that Max and Yuki overtook Lewis on track without DRS and people are now saying it wasn't proper? So it was improper? They need to give it back? And what's the deal with pointing out why DRS needs to exist? Did I say that it doesn't? Nope.

People here seem to think the Mercedes had superior race pace, but on the contrary, I think Ham just benefitted from the tow and DRS and being less held up by backmarkers. When Ham didn't have DRS at his disposal he got passed by Max and Yuki. And since Ham was in front, it must mean they were fast enough to get by.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix - Imola, Apr 16 - 18

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:13 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:37 pm
...

Not "proper" as in coming off the last corner at racing speed having struggled to stay close enough behind the car in front through two fast corners.

The overtake at the start was a pure question of who got the best launch off the line. At a restart, the cars are nose to tail and so basically start in the tow position when the hammer is dropped.

DRS exists because without it, the current cars would struggle to overtake at all. We'd go back to races where cars sat behind each other lap after lap after lap. It was dull as ditch water. DRS is a sticking plaster, yes, but it's better than the alternative.
An overtake on track IS proper no ifs and or buts. You don't need corners to call a pass on a straight a proper overtake, that is just plain nonsense. The only non-proper overtake is one in the pits,.

All I've pointed out is that Max and Yuki overtook Lewis on track without DRS and people are now saying it wasn't proper? So it was improper? They need to give it back? And what's the deal with pointing out why DRS needs to exist? Did I say that it doesn't? Nope.

People here seem to think the Mercedes had superior race pace, but on the contrary, I think Ham just benefitted from the tow and DRS and being less held up by backmarkers. When Ham didn't have DRS at his disposal he got passed by Max and Yuki. And since Ham was in front, it must mean they were fast enough to get by.
Did either of them pass him after coming on to the straight at full racing speed behind him? No. That's the point. If they had tried to, they wouldn't have succeeded without DRS. Starts / restarts are not typical overtakes. Yes, they are "real" overtakes as they happen on track, but they make use of the situation. In effect, the situation becomes the DRS. DRS is designed to allow the following car to get in to the tow. The start/restart put the following car in that position - Max at the start, for example, was in the perfect place, relative to Lewis. Likewise on the restart. If either following car had been 1 second behind Lewis in either situation, neither would have made the overtake because they'd have never been able to get close enough.

This isn't about which driver did what, it's about the physics of F1. DRS is required in order to prevent processional racing. Hopefully, the new rules next year will allow the cars to follow closer in the corners and we can get rid of DRS. But until then, DRS is absolutely required.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"