2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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lh13
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:37 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:07 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:56 pm
Interesting analysis by the Sky team looking at the respective pit stops for Max and Lewis. It appears that the Mercedes pit was hampered by the tight approach to their pit box. The two cars were fairly even going in to the pit lane, and the stop times were similar. But there was a loss of 8/10ths which was what put Max ahead after the stop.

By such margins are battles won and lost.
I don't see how. This is Bottas coming in for his stop, and while other cars have to turn right/left to get into their pitbox, for Mercedes cars it was straight entry into their pitbox. If anything, it was an advantage.

https://s1.im.ge/2021/06/25/lvWvW.png
Did you watch the piece? It showed the onboards from both cars and the Mercedes was a tighter entry.
I don't have access to Sky. Can you post some screens?

dans79
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:47 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:37 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:07 pm


I don't see how. This is Bottas coming in for his stop, and while other cars have to turn right/left to get into their pitbox, for Mercedes cars it was straight entry into their pitbox. If anything, it was an advantage.

https://s1.im.ge/2021/06/25/lvWvW.png
Did you watch the piece? It showed the onboards from both cars and the Mercedes was a tighter entry.
I don't have access to Sky. Can you post some screens?
The commentators said it would be posted to social media at some point today!
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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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FYI if you are a f1tv subscriber Joylon Palmer did almost half an hour on how the undercut worked, including analysing the telemetry of RB and MB into and through the pitlane. Will be interested to compare Sky's conclusions vs Joylon.

lh13
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:48 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:47 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:37 pm

Did you watch the piece? It showed the onboards from both cars and the Mercedes was a tighter entry.
I don't have access to Sky. Can you post some screens?
The commentators said it would be posted to social media at some point today!




I still cannot see what's tighter about Hamilton's pit entry than Verstappen's. Verstappen has to make more steering movements to get into the pitbox.

P.S. Apologies, I didn't realise that I was quoting you instead of just_a_fan

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:51 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:48 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:47 pm


I don't have access to Sky. Can you post some screens?
The commentators said it would be posted to social media at some point today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQi1ZsB ... nnel=HdZpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw_-M76 ... nnel=HdZpo

I still cannot see what's tighter about Hamilton's pit entry than Verstappen's. Verstappen has to make more steering movements to get into the pitbox.

P.S. Apologies, I didn't realise that I was quoting you instead of just_a_fan
It was to do with the tightness of the lines and thus the whether one was bale to be a bit quicker approaching his box than the other. It's their analysis, not mine, I just mentioned it in case others missed it.
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lh13
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:20 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:51 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:48 pm


The commentators said it would be posted to social media at some point today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQi1ZsB ... nnel=HdZpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw_-M76 ... nnel=HdZpo

I still cannot see what's tighter about Hamilton's pit entry than Verstappen's. Verstappen has to make more steering movements to get into the pitbox.

P.S. Apologies, I didn't realise that I was quoting you instead of just_a_fan
It was to do with the tightness of the lines and thus the whether one was bale to be a bit quicker approaching his box than the other. It's their analysis, not mine, I just mentioned it in case others missed it.
That's fine with me. One thing I noticed from the video that Hamilton was unusually slow getting away from his pitbox. I think that would have cost more time than the pitbox entry (which I don't believe could have cost much, if anything at all). Did they miss this in their analysis?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:07 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:56 pm
Interesting analysis by the Sky team looking at the respective pit stops for Max and Lewis. It appears that the Mercedes pit was hampered by the tight approach to their pit box. The two cars were fairly even going in to the pit lane, and the stop times were similar. But there was a loss of 8/10ths which was what put Max ahead after the stop.

By such margins are battles won and lost.
I don't see how. This is Bottas coming in for his stop, and while other cars have to turn right/left to get into their pitbox, for Mercedes cars it was straight entry into their pitbox. If anything, it was an advantage.

https://s1.im.ge/2021/06/25/lvWvW.png
Exactly why you "don't see how"..
Watch the video and you will see. 8)
.. ... ... ... ...

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:35 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:20 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:51 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQi1ZsB ... nnel=HdZpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw_-M76 ... nnel=HdZpo

I still cannot see what's tighter about Hamilton's pit entry than Verstappen's. Verstappen has to make more steering movements to get into the pitbox.

P.S. Apologies, I didn't realise that I was quoting you instead of just_a_fan
It was to do with the tightness of the lines and thus the whether one was bale to be a bit quicker approaching his box than the other. It's their analysis, not mine, I just mentioned it in case others missed it.
That's fine with me. One thing I noticed from the video that Hamilton was unusually slow getting away from his pitbox. I think that would have cost more time than the pitbox entry (which I don't believe could have cost much, if anything at all). Did they miss this in their analysis?
I agree here.
I thought his car rolled off a bit slowly.
But it couldn't be worth that much time when i look back on it. Maybe in addition with the slow entry.
.. ... ... ... ...

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Max has to avoid the Mercedes crew, Lewis doesn't. It isn't a disadvantage at all. This wasn't the deciding factor anyway.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:20 pm
It was to do with the tightness of the lines and thus the whether one was bale to be a bit quicker approaching his box than the other. It's their analysis, not mine, I just mentioned it in case others missed it.
I went back and rewatched Joylon's analysis. Joylon said that Hamilton had the more comfortable pit box entry, but regardless.

His conclusions otherwise were

* Max took the corner into the pit entry with a better line for the pit entry gained 1/10s
* Max was later on the brakes for the speed limit line gained 3/10s or slightly more
* Max braked later into his box than Hamilton gained 2/10s (although technically this is the phase you refer to as Hamilton having the nicer line in, not what Joylon thought, but ymmv)
* Hamilton got better traction out of the box and gained 1/10s

I wish the F1TV Joylon things were on Youtube, they are great.

lh13
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:41 pm
lh13 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:07 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:56 pm
Interesting analysis by the Sky team looking at the respective pit stops for Max and Lewis. It appears that the Mercedes pit was hampered by the tight approach to their pit box. The two cars were fairly even going in to the pit lane, and the stop times were similar. But there was a loss of 8/10ths which was what put Max ahead after the stop.

By such margins are battles won and lost.
I don't see how. This is Bottas coming in for his stop, and while other cars have to turn right/left to get into their pitbox, for Mercedes cars it was straight entry into their pitbox. If anything, it was an advantage.

https://s1.im.ge/2021/06/25/lvWvW.png
Exactly why you "don't see how"..
Watch the video and you will see. 8)
Well no offence, but I don't need to watch sky when I clearly can see from the youtube videos that that wasn't the case.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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nzjrs wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:14 pm
I wish the F1TV Joylon things were on Youtube, they are great.
They want us to get F1TV ;)

I think in the discussion about the different lines/approaches the distance covered would be the main factor and not how comfortable or easy the entry was.
The speed limit was quite low at [correction] 60kph (16.667m/s) iirc ...so every metre of travel extra is a bit more than 1/17th of a second or 0.06s

From the onboards it's hard to judge if there was any major difference between them though... is there an overhead shot of the pit entry that has the pit boxes of RBR and Merc?
Last edited by RZS10 on Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:37 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:14 pm
I wish the F1TV Joylon things were on Youtube, they are great.
They want us to get F1TV ;)

I think in the discussion about the different lines/approaches the distance covered would be the main factor and not how comfortable or easy the entry was.
The speed limit was quite low at 50kph (13.889m/s) iirc ...so every metre of travel extra is a bit more than 1/14th of a second or 0.072s

From the onboards it's hard to judge if there was any major difference between them though... is there an overhead shot of the pit entry that has the pit boxes of RBR and Merc?
They are free on youtube...

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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Oh cool thanks, it's usually just part of the entire thing if i'm not mistaken (?)

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nzjrs
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Re: 2021 French Grand Prix - Le Castellet, June 18 - 20

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:51 pm
They are free on youtube...
Yeah, they only post just a part of the full analysis and omit the interesting parts.

That does seem to include at least the comment about the open/close pit box entry, but lacks all the other good stuff with the pit lane telemetry.