2021 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 02 - 04

[Just_a_fan]

Could play out differently if the purported radical/experimental setup issue is rectified. I guess maybe setups will need to be slightly different across the board in order to baby the tyres, and that may slightly shift relative performance (in either direction).

Having said that, not sure how much scope there is for protecting tyres any more than what they would have done this last race.

Good points.

I think Merc need to take the risk and spend some actual time on track trialing a lower-downforce RW configuration. Their simulations say such a choice costs too much time in the corners, but they should still be able to protect the tires over a race distance (with more fuel in the car, the rear instability is mollified somewhat) with a decent setup because the option with less "dirty" downforce doesn't take quite as much life out of the tires in the corners.

It's a fine line between extra downforce protecting tires, and extra downforce taking life away via more robust engagement in the corners. And there's plenty of time to "rest" the tires with the straights in Austria.

Gary Anderson pointed this out on The Race's podcast, as well.

The idea is flawed from the start. Lap time is principally found in the corners. Corners are the slow parts of the track and the less time you spend in the corners, the better your lap time. If they sacrifice corner speed for straight line speed, lap time won't improve but the tyres will suffer.

Red Bull are faster because they have the same total downforce as the Mercedes (perhaps slightly more, actually but not by much) and they have lower drag. So they are as quick in the corners and quicker on the straights.

Reducing the rear wing won't help that situation. The issue is fundamentally baked in to the cars thanks to the changes made to the rear aero by the rules. Mercedes are further hampered by the new resource limitations. It's a perfect storm and one from which they can not reasonably recover.

I think they have decided it's not worth the resources. They also benefit from the rule that allows them slightly more resources as their position worsens. Red Bull being ahead means Mercedes get a few more % time in CFD and the tunnel. Red Bull lose out in the same way.

[Sieper]

They do have lower drag, at least, that sounds plausible to me. there was a side by side picture (I think in the RBR team thread, or the RB16B) at the same angle (almost perfect) and you could really see the RB16B has a skinnier air intake and smaller sidepods. We also know how much effort they put in the Rear suspension and gearbox to free up space there as well. But this battle is only just begun, Mercedes is not "much slower" it has been to and fro on different tracks. Even this weekend (softer tires). We first have to see what happens. And we might get rain this time around. It is very humid and rainy this whole week in large parts of Europe.

[Pyrone89]

You're not in good graces quoting Gary Anderson around here. From the onboard laps I saw Hamilton still had a fair amount of rear instability during last race even with the large rear wing. Less rear downforce will also reduce traction which already seemed to be in short supply for Merc.

Apparently they ran with lesser wing. If they return to more wing they lose maybe a bit more on straights but will be mega in twisty section and on tyre deg, which could prove to be key with using softer range of tyres.

All to play for this weekend. We have seen in Silverstone last year that 2 races on the same track can have widely different results because of tyre differences. And remember a DNF also always lurks around. 1 DNF for Max and Lewis is leading the championship by 7 or 8 points instantly.

[aMessageToCharlie]

- Even a few degrees in track temperature can turn the tables completely, as seen multiple times this season already

- This week might be a wet race

- RB had BBW issues with Max in the last race which could have easily resulted in a dnf

- Neither of the Mercs nailed their qualy laps last time out

- The qualy performance of the second cars will determine the strategy options. Bottas started out of position last race due to his penalty. If he's up there from the start everything might play out very differently

- Merc were running "experimental setups" last race



I don’t see Mercedes throwing the towel like it's fans seem to be doing after one bad race.

It's all to play for.

[Big Tea]

- Even a few degrees in track temperature can turn the tables completely, as seen multiple times this season already

- This week might be a wet race

- RB had BBW issues with Max in the last race which could have easily resulted in a dnf

- Neither of the Mercs nailed their qualy laps last time out

- The qualy performance of the second cars will determine the strategy options. Bottas started out of position last race due to his penalty. If he's up there from the start everything might play out very differently

- Merc were running "experimental setups" last race



I don’t see Mercedes throwing the towel like it's fans seem to be doing after one bad race.

It's all to play for.

Any change in tyre pressure limits?

[jjn9128]

The idea is flawed from the start. Lap time is principally found in the corners. Corners are the slow parts of the track and the less time you spend in the corners, the better your lap time. If they sacrifice corner speed for straight line speed, lap time won't improve but the tyres will suffer.

I'd disagree with this statement. Laptime is found in the compromise between downforce and drag, in some places less downforce helps and vice versa. Tyres can/do also suffer from too much downforce

[Just_a_fan]

The idea is flawed from the start. Lap time is principally found in the corners. Corners are the slow parts of the track and the less time you spend in the corners, the better your lap time. If they sacrifice corner speed for straight line speed, lap time won't improve but the tyres will suffer.

I'd disagree with this statement. Laptime is found in the compromise between downforce and drag, in some places less downforce helps and vice versa. Tyres can/do also suffer from too much downforce

Fair enough. The basic premise is correct however - the corners are the slowest part of the track and being quick in them always helps lap time.

I think that at Austria, Mercedes would not have had a better lap time with less rear wing. Maybe they could have hustled the car over a single lap in qualifying but in the race, the rears would have suffered high deg and they'd have been forced to run a two stopper from the start. And still probably wouldn't have been quicker than Red Bull.

[214270]

You're not in good graces quoting Gary Anderson around here.

It was such a strange take. Anderson was effectively making the case that ‘wear’ is a failure criteria these clever engineers in 2021 are solving for! We’re well into the Pirelli era and he thinks this is a consideration vs. the multiple ways a tyre fails as a result of heat-related degradation. He needs to go rewatch HAM in Turkey last year if he thinks wear trumps maintaining adequate operational temps.

[Manoah2u]

perhaps a stupid question but why haven't they decided to simply drive the opposite direction?

[DChemTech]

perhaps a stupid question but why haven't they decided to simply drive the opposite direction?

Probably too expensive to rearrange the pitlane and all that.

[El Scorchio]

perhaps a stupid question but why haven't they decided to simply drive the opposite direction?

Probably too expensive to rearrange the pitlane and all that.

and all the barriers/marshall posts too! Loads of fencing would have to be ripped out of the ground and redone.

[skoop]

Actually there were some reports on this. If I remember it correctly the costs were too high (somewhat in the 7 figures) and one week is too short for the required construction work.

[JPower]

I'm interested to see how much Ferrari and McLaren change their approach this time around. McLaren seemed to focus a bit more on quali this go around with Ferrari doing the opposite.

Judging by Binotto's comments, he's looking for better one lap performance this weekend. I don't know if he's going to find that if he wants to protect those tires as well as they did last race.

Alpine might have an even worse weekend if their past performance on the soft compounds rears its head again.

[mkay]

perhaps a stupid question but why haven't they decided to simply drive the opposite direction?

Turn 3 (or Turn 8 in the reverse layout) would be an absolute bloodbath due to the downhill hard braking zone and lack of run-off, akin to Baku's T15.

[RZS10]

Whatever happened to the expansion plans?