European GP 2007

modbaraban · Post 23 Jul 2007, 13:38

Obviously Massa had troubles and that was why Alnoso appeared to be so much faster... it's just that our commentator started about how good Alonso is on the wet and recalling Hungary 2006 etc.... the 'Rain Man' bla bla bla etc....

FLC · Post 23 Jul 2007, 14:02

deluge wrote:Marshals can move cars from a dangerous position, this is true. But, that means dangerous to the competitors on track, as well as the stranded driver on-track, i.e. MS stuck with half of his car on the tarmac and half in the gravel with the engine running and tires spinning. A simple push, the car is away, the obstruction is cleared, and the marshals retreat.

If Lewis was in a dangerous position, it was only because he didn't exit the car like the other 5 drivers did. No one on track was threatened by Lewis, and if so, they were also threatened by the other 5 stranded cars.

So, to make things less dangerous, let's move a heavy piece of recovery equipment in, lift a car and driver, a car with the engine running, a car with about 15 laps of fuel in the tanks, and then move toward the danger of approaching cars, and deposit said driver and car on the tarmac to continue racing.

This has to be the most dangerous option available to marshals, other competitors and race control. And, it is unprecidented.

Well said.

FLC · Post 23 Jul 2007, 14:05

If Massa is so useless in the rain, how come he managed to pull away from Alonso in the first stint, before they switched to dry tires?

Ignis Fatuus · Post 23 Jul 2007, 14:25

FLC wrote:If Massa is so useless in the rain, how come he managed to pull away from Alonso in the first stint, before they switched to dry tires?

I checked the gap chart and Massa pulled away from Alonso after their stop for dry tyres on lap 12.

I think Massa did well and in normal conditions he would win, but it was on dry tyres where he was much quicker than Alonso.

FLC · Post 23 Jul 2007, 14:36

He didn't open a big gap, but Alonso was around 0.05-0.1-0.2 sec. a lap slower than him, except for lap 12. Anyway, the important point is that Massa could keep him behind when his car was working properly.

Spyker MF1 · Post 23 Jul 2007, 15:22

Rob W wrote:
naknak_56 wrote:Sorry but I cant see how his position was dangerous , he was in the gravel trap!
His car almost got hit by a Spyker sliding off and four other cars went off there also - if that isn't in the dangerous category I don't know what it.

Rob W

It was more dangerous him sitting in the car. He was putting his health and the marshalls at risk by sitting in his car. He should have been DQ'd for making a dangerous situation more than twice as bad. If I was the guy in the tractor I would have just put him behind the tyre wall. If it wasn't for Hamilton waiting in the car then Liuzzi wouldn't have been so close to pileing ino the tractor, so he put other drivers lives at risk as well.

Overall it was a cheating weekend by McLaren. First off Hamilton should have started from the pits. For changing chassis.

Second he should have been DQ'd for the reasons above.

Third Alonso should of had a drive through for being released in a dangerous manner. And they got away with it all.

I really hope now they get DQ'd from racing again this season on Thursday. Maybe that would teach them a lesson?

waynes · Post 23 Jul 2007, 16:05

Spyker MF1 wrote:For changing chassis

they changed the chassis? i dont think so

and they would have had to start from pitlane if they changed the engine as fat as im aware

Spyker MF1 · Post 23 Jul 2007, 16:39

I thought they said he changed chasis? Engine penelty is a being move 10 places on the grid.

vyselegend · Post 23 Jul 2007, 16:48

There's nothing wrong with changing chassis, as far as I know.

You just have to keep the two-races engine for two races, but there isn't two-races chassis rule...

pRo · Post 23 Jul 2007, 16:52

vyselegend wrote:There's nothing wrong with changing chassis, as far as I know.

You just have to keep the two-races engine for two races, but there isn't two-races chassis rule...

Exactly. All the teams could change the chassis, if they wanted to. There's no rule against it as long as the engine stays.

And what was so dangerous about letting Alonso go? The pitlane is wide enough for two cars and I didn't see any real danger there. I suppose you have to be anti-McLaren to make all those claims.

vyselegend · Post 23 Jul 2007, 17:02

pRo wrote:
And what was so dangerous about letting Alonso go? The pitlane is wide enough for two cars and I didn't see any real danger there.

That one is more discutable, because the lolipop man has to ensure everithing is safe before releasing the car. If Alonso had hit the other car, he would have been given a drive-through penality! So that was risky.
That said, Alonso have lots of experience, probably the loolipop guy assumed he did saw the car comming in his rear view mirrors, which is certainly the case since he got out on the extreme right side of the lane, which is what avoided the collision.

mx_tifoso · Post 23 Jul 2007, 17:44

waynes wrote:
Spyker MF1 wrote:For changing chassis
they changed the chassis? i dont think so

and they would have had to start from pitlane if they changed the engine as fat as im aware

Hamilton did have to use a different chassis after the accident. The mechanics had to transfer his engine (unharmed) into the empty spare tub. And that is why he didn't recieve a penalty for doing so, he didn't change engine, just chassis.
-------------------------------
The reason why Massa was not able to defend his position properly against Alonso was because of an unexpected vibration in his set of wet tires. If he would have had properly functioning tires his defence woud have lasted longer, and maybe would have shut the door on Alonso. But what ifs and maybes dont matter anymore.

What does matter now is that the gap in points to Hamilton has been narrowed a considerable amount (only if KR had scored some points

)

Still seven races to go

Lets hope for perfect reliability until the end.

Spyker MF1 · Post 23 Jul 2007, 17:45

pRo wrote: And what was so dangerous about letting Alonso go? The pitlane is wide enough for two cars and I didn't see any real danger there. I suppose you have to be anti-McLaren to make all those claims.

If Fisi hadn't moved right to the wall they would have hit and even though he dd that Honda had t make a complaint as their mechanics were nearly hit. If Fisi hadn't of moved I wouldn't be surprised if it had killed a mechanic or two.

jddh1 · Post 23 Jul 2007, 17:51

This is Ron Dennis asking Alonso to spray Schumi during the celebrations. Childish if you ask me.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O-s0ixVjTPQ&NR=1

pRo · Post 23 Jul 2007, 21:43

jddh1 wrote:This is Ron Dennis asking Alonso to spray Schumi during the celebrations. Childish if you ask me.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O-s0ixVjTPQ&NR=1

What's so childish about it?

It wouldn't be the first time someone else gets a spray. It's not childish, it's just happy-happy-joy-joy. Don't take it so seriously. I do understand that Ferrari might've gotten 1-2 and in the end McLaren was the reason they didn't even get the 1. But that's racing and there's no need to blame them over everything, no matter how diehard Ferrari fan you are. Maybe you get luckier next time. Maybe not. But please, please, don't blame McLaren for winning and Ron for being happy about it.