[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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maunde
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by maunde » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:45 am

So I was reading over some comments in October in this thread RE what rules to use for next year's comp. I also agree 2021-esque rules would be brilliant. For the CAD side of things, I believe JJin modelled the control volumes for the 2021 regs, could you use that model along with limits on thickness for the competition rules? This way you are not too prescriptive yet we will have the bonus of saying we are using the 2021 volumes?

Those volumes are likely slim enough that we won't have a huge divergence in results from the actual F1 field, but will also allow easy regulation-checking by only having the volumes (Similar to this year's amount of complexity of reg checking?)

Would love to hear opinions.
A kiwi looking to fly like McLaren.

machin
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:04 am

This is more or less the kind of approach that Andre and I have discussed for next year but we’re currently taking a few weeks rest! 😊👍
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by LVDH » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:28 am

Like Richard said, we need a rest now. And there is other work that needs to get done.
Yesterday I checked the files we received. I think an issue we will have is that we have a championship about aerodynamic design and the 2021 rules pretty much define everything. There is some freedom in wing design but I am not sure a wing design championship is very cool. So we will have to find a balance of giving you some freedom at the expense of realism.

maunde
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by maunde » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:16 am

LVDH wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:28 am
Like Richard said, we need a rest now. And there is other work that needs to get done.
Yesterday I checked the files we received. I think an issue we will have is that we have a championship about aerodynamic design and the 2021 rules pretty much define everything. There is some freedom in wing design but I am not sure a wing design championship is very cool. So we will have to find a balance of giving you some freedom at the expense of realism.
Makes perfect sense. Have a good break and happy holidays!
A kiwi looking to fly like McLaren.

jjn9128
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by jjn9128 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:38 pm

I'd argue there's not a huge difference to the 2019 mvrc rule boxes. :P
#aerogandalf

LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by LVDH » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:15 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:38 pm
I'd argue there's not a huge difference to the 2019 mvrc rule boxes. :P
Yeah, that is kind of true. One thing I do not like about the current and the potentially new rules is that the entire nose is pretty much defined by the restrictions. I hope to find some time to go through all the results of this season to see how much of the downforce on each car was created by the wings and how much by the diffuser. Also for once, I would then like to create a set of really good open source wings, everybody could use, so the differentiating factor of the cars will be the body design.

jjn9128
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by jjn9128 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:26 pm

LVDH wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:15 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:38 pm
I'd argue there's not a huge difference to the 2019 mvrc rule boxes. :P
Yeah, that is kind of true. One thing I do not like about the current and the potentially new rules is that the entire nose is pretty much defined by the restrictions. I hope to find some time to go through all the results of this season to see how much of the downforce on each car was created by the wings and how much by the diffuser. Also for once, I would then like to create a set of really good open source wings, everybody could use, so the differentiating factor of the cars will be the body design.
The minimum monocoque size is bigger for 2021, e.g. the B-B plane bulkhead is 490mm wide not 450mm and the offset around the cockpit opening 80mm not 60mm. So swapping the 2020 monocoque rules into 2021 would give more space and freedom around the nose. You could also sub in the mid-body vane from the "India" concept car which would add another area of development! I think they anticipate a really high rake so the rear wing volume wants to be a bit narrower.
#aerogandalf

Koldskaal
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by Koldskaal » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:31 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:38 pm
I'd argue there's not a huge difference to the 2019 mvrc rule boxes. :P
To whom it may concern :wink: :
Image
Transparent, Red=internal parts:
Image

Image

Image
MVRC - Team Koldskaal, name: Christian

LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by LVDH » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:35 pm

Cool graphic, thank you.
Are these files available to everyone?

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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by Koldskaal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:23 am

LVDH wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:35 pm
Cool graphic, thank you.
Are these files available to everyone?
No, I dont think it is possible to download the parts from FIA directly. But If you want them you can pm me.
I have constructed the volumes from the appendix to the 2021 regulations, making a few assumptions along the way. Like the distance from FWCL to the A-A plane and the wheelbase (there are also some errors). And I have moved all the volumes to fit the mvrc coordinates.
MVRC - Team Koldskaal, name: Christian

LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by LVDH » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:38 am

OK, I see. Very cool. Maybe you could make your files available for me and Richard. jjn9128 has already sent us his version. That way we could confirm that everything is correct without having to go through all these rules ourselves.

variante
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by variante » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:26 pm

Hey, congratulation to CAEdevice for taking his 3rd(?) championship! He definitely deserved it, with consistent and ever-growing performance.

Despite what his name may suggest, Koldskaal is probably the strongest newcomer to date, and his 2nd place overall certifies it. So, congratulation to him too. I must also say that i like his quite unconventional approach to design, so it's been particularly nice to watch his creations.

And well done to the many other guys who delivered solid cars and helped making this year's championship the most unpredictable.

As for me, i'm not happy nor unhappy with my performance: i really messed up the first race due to a stupid mistake, which is a pity champioship-wise, and i've never been able to actually cut drag on my car; on the other hand, i've managed to find a lot of downforce and win one race, which is nice.
Similarly to JJR, i took it a bit easy this year, with only 2/3 of the simulations made compared to last year. If boundary conditions will allow me to, i'll go back full throttle next year.

Finally, many thanks to the organizers! I know it's not easy at all to deal with all of this (for multiple reasons...), but i'm sure you had some fun too.

machin
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:04 pm

LVDH wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:15 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:38 pm
I'd argue there's not a huge difference to the 2019 mvrc rule boxes. :P
Yeah, that is kind of true. One thing I do not like about the current and the potentially new rules is that the entire nose is pretty much defined by the restrictions. I hope to find some time to go through all the results of this season to see how much of the downforce on each car was created by the wings and how much by the diffuser. Also for once, I would then like to create a set of really good open source wings, everybody could use, so the differentiating factor of the cars will be the body design.
If we keep the front and rear wing boxes the same everyone can use Matteo's wings! (I am only half joking).

I agree with you: it was really great to see cars this year which closely resembled real F1 cars... but real F1 cars all look very similar and this is often a point of complaint amongst some F1 fans...so in our case it is really a double-edged compliment.

(If we open up the rules/regulations about nose design then we really need to strongly enforce my earlier rule suggestion that continual comparisons on the forum with real f1 rules will be met with a severe points penalty. :wink: )
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

Koldskaal
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by Koldskaal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:07 pm

variante wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:26 pm
Despite what his name may suggest, Koldskaal is probably the strongest newcomer to date, and his 2nd place overall certifies it. So, congratulation to him too. I must also say that i like his quite unconventional approach to design, so it's been particularly nice to watch his creations.
Thanks! compliments mean a lot comming from you :D . I have been checking in on this challenge every so often, after I discovered it back in highschool. I am sure that if you look hard enough you will find some inspiration from some of your earlier cars in mine :) . For example it seems that this competition is the only place online where one can really learn about stepped diffusers. (excluding the acoustic kind)
machin wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:04 pm
(If we open up the rules/regulations about nose design then we really need to strongly enforce my earlier rule suggestion that continual comparisons on the forum with real f1 rules will be met with a severe points penalty. :wink: )
BuT i WaNT a S-dUCt! :lol:

Also: How would you feel about me releasing my take on the 2021 regs (some people have asked)? Do you want the 14 pages of boring appendix to serve as an "arms-race deterrent"?

I personally plan on publishing the results of my "preseason testing" but so far i only have 1/3 of a car... so it might take a while.
MVRC - Team Koldskaal, name: Christian

maunde
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by maunde » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:25 pm

Koldskaal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:07 pm
variante wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:26 pm
Despite what his name may suggest, Koldskaal is probably the strongest newcomer to date, and his 2nd place overall certifies it. So, congratulation to him too. I must also say that i like his quite unconventional approach to design, so it's been particularly nice to watch his creations.
Thanks! compliments mean a lot comming from you :D . I have been checking in on this challenge every so often, after I discovered it back in highschool. I am sure that if you look hard enough you will find some inspiration from some of your earlier cars in mine :) . For example it seems that this competition is the only place online where one can really learn about stepped diffusers. (excluding the acoustic kind)
machin wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:04 pm
(If we open up the rules/regulations about nose design then we really need to strongly enforce my earlier rule suggestion that continual comparisons on the forum with real f1 rules will be met with a severe points penalty. :wink: )
BuT i WaNT a S-dUCt! :lol:

Also: How would you feel about me releasing my take on the 2021 regs (some people have asked)? Do you want the 14 pages of boring appendix to serve as an "arms-race deterrent"?

I personally plan on publishing the results of my "preseason testing" but so far i only have 1/3 of a car... so it might take a while.
Congrats on being on the podium ;) what sort of CAD software do you use while modelling?
A kiwi looking to fly like McLaren.