Weight of an FSAE car vs bike

[J.A.W.]

These posts were split from FSAE car with Yamaha YFZ450r engine

I'd like to know - by what parameters - does the machine you build - improve on the original motorcycle chassis?

[gruntguru]

Well JAW, the wheel count is doubled for a start.

[J.A.W.]

Well JAW, the wheel count is doubled for a start.

Ya think? & apart from doubling a bunch of liabilities.. that improves - what?

[Cold Fussion]

A YFZ450r is an ATV is it not? I dear say an F-SAE car will be on an autocross track than an ATV. The top F-SAE cars in the world have a lot of downforce and weigh less compared to something like a CBR600rr.

[J.A.W.]

Right.. C-F, & what G-force/ cornering speed do they generate compared to a (Honda 600/4 powered ) Moto 2 bike?

Or even the 450 4T ex-MX based road-racers?

Its an exrecise in practical engineering for students, sure.. but no actual improvement - dynamically - over the bike..

[gruntguru]

Right.. C-F, & what G-force/ cornering speed do they generate compared to a (Honda 600/4 powered ) Moto 2 bike?

Or even the 450 4T ex-MX based road-racers?

Its an exrecise in practical engineering for students, sure.. but no actual improvement - dynamically - over the bike..

A good FSAE car would significantly outperform the bike in the dynamic events FSAE cars are designed for.

[J.A.W.]

A good FSAE car would significantly outperform the bike in the dynamic events FSAE cars are designed for.

Opinion only G-G? & worth what?
Any basis in fact to support this.. since it certainly seems rather doubtful.. given dimensional disparity..

[Cold Fussion]

The top aero FSAE cars produce their weight in down force between 40-60 km/h, have more than double the contact patch area of a bike and weigh less.

[J.A.W.]

"Weigh less"? Really?
The Moto 2 G.P. bike which uses the Honda 600/4 production mill - has a weight limit for bike/rider of 215kg..
Be-winged downforce at speeds that low implies a barn-door approach to aero..

[xxChrisxx]

A good FSAE car would significantly outperform the bike in the dynamic events FSAE cars are designed for.

Any basis in fact to support this.. since it certainly seems rather doubtful.. given dimensional disparity..

On the fact that, to be eligible for entry, it has to be a car. Rendering any other 'point' moot.

[J.A.W.]

Not at all, it might be fun to see a skilled stunt rider do the FSAE course - to see how a bike actually compares..

[xxChrisxx]

'Stunt rider'. What the hell are you on about. It's a car design competition for students. It has --- all to do with bikes, let alone getting Evel Knievel involved.

If you enter a 'design a bridge' competition, and turn up with a design for a ferry. No matter how much better you think it is, it's not eligible. Moreover you'd probably be asked why you are wasting everyone time.

[sgth0mas]

"Weigh less"? Really?
The Moto 2 G.P. bike which uses the Honda 600/4 production mill - has a weight limit for bike/rider of 215kg..
Be-winged downforce at speeds that low implies a barn-door approach to aero..

I would like to see a motorcycle vs FSAE as well just for fun....but i think on an FSAE track, the motorcycle would lose. Now on a larger open track it may be a different story.

Im not sure about other teams, but the school i attended for my undergrad degree (UTA) has a current car weight of 395 lbs (180kg)...so no its not less than a bike, but close and it has a lot of aero. FSAE courses are slow(ish) and tight...i dont think it is very suitable for motorcycles.

The point of the competition is to teach engineering design in many aspects of electrical, software, mechanical, aero and systems. Engines are taken from other platforms as a method of both cost control and because engine development from scratch is asking too much. Improving beyond the engines donor vehicle has nothing to do with the purpose of the competition.

And your statement about the size of the aero is pretty close to correct...haha

[xxChrisxx]

It always a source of debate as to the effectiveness of aero on FSAE cars. Over the past couple of years, wings seem to be becoming ubiquitous, so the debate must be over. Which is a shame as it makes the cars look ---.

Edit: As a general rule I hate aero though, so i'm biased.

[krisfx]

J.A.W - The FSAE car is an infinite improvement on a bike because doubling the wheels means it can stand unsupported without falling over, which is just better.

Also, some of the electric teams are running record breaking 0-60 times coupled with crazy grip levels.

On topic: I've read some good dissertations on differential selection, your team should look there as they involve physical test data in most cases and will help you make a more informed decision, which is critical for the design event.