[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:23 am

The Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 is go, go, go (to paraphrase Murray Walker)!!!!

Image


Rules, Registration, Calender and CAD parts are available on the website:-

http://www.mantiumchallenge.com

Good luck to all competitors, can't wait to see you on the grid!
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

jjn9128
244
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by jjn9128 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:48 pm

The STEP file for the front wing neutral section is dodgy, the RHS (Y+) especially but also the curvature looks off!
#aerogandalf

machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:12 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:48 pm
The STEP file for the front wing neutral section is dodgy, the RHS (Y+) especially but also the curvature looks off!
I just downloaded the STEP part from the website myself and it loads up OK in my CAD package; both sides are symmetrical. Please bear in mind that we didn't intend on matching the FIA rules 100%, for various reasons, not least of which being copyright rules.

I hope this interest suggests you are going to join the challenge. 👍👍👍
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

jjn9128
244
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by jjn9128 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:55 pm

machin wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:12 pm
I just downloaded the STEP part from the website myself and it loads up OK in my CAD package; both sides are symmetrical. Please bear in mind that we didn't intend on matching the FIA rules 100%, for various reasons, not least of which being copyright rules.
Looks like this for me (tried re-uploading it too). It's probably just the CAD package as you say.
Image

machin wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:12 pm
I hope this interest suggests you are going to join the challenge. 👍👍👍
Maybe, I'm just checking out the rules at the moment. Not sure if I'd have any time to spend on it, so more an interested party than likely competitor!
Last edited by jjn9128 on Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#aerogandalf

machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:10 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:55 pm
Looks like this for me (tried re-uploading it too). Using OnShape, so probably just the CAD package as you say.
https://ad5oqw.by.files.1drv.com/y4mCEF ... pmode=none
Interesting... Have you tried the STL?

Maybe, I'm just checking out the rules at the moment. Not sure if I'd have any time to spend on it, so more an interested party than likely competitor!
That’s a shame; would’ve been good to see some of your aero magic used in competitive conditions...
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

etsmc
6
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:20 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by etsmc » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:09 am

Just had a resd through the rules and regulations and they read well. Great work!
Now time to start sketching..

CAEdevice
38
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:33 pm
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by CAEdevice » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:43 pm

Thanks! I used to check the other thread everyday and I finally missed this one :)

Some questions:

5.1.2: It means we can't rotate the hear exchngers at all or that we can rotate them by any direction?

C.o.p: wich is the reference value?

Wheelbase: in my opinion 3400mm is a bit too short, but our cars are Grand Prix Car and not F1 cars... so it is ok finally and I guess that they will look much better than F1 cars.

Front wing pillars: what about cars with low nose directly attached to tje wing? That portion of the pillars is mandatory?

Calender: it is great to start with SPA, but the first race is so close... I am not sure to take part in the first race and I exclude I will have a "open source" ready to be released for the forst race.

PS: I will check the STEP tomorrow, but the first impression is that you did a very good job.

machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:41 pm

CAEdevice wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:43 pm
Wheelbase: in my opinion 3400mm is a bit too short, but our cars are Grand Prix Car and not F1 cars... so it is ok finally and I guess that they will look much better than F1 cars.
Andre convinced me to INCREASE it to 3.4m... I had it at 3.2m before so consider that a win from you guys moaning... 😉
Front wing pillars: what about cars with low nose directly attached to the wing? That portion of the pillars is mandatory?
You have to connect to those two short pillars on the given mid-wing section somehow; you cannot connect anywhere else as that’s the only place where the mid-wing section meets the legality volume.
Calender: it is great to start with SPA, but the first race is so close... I am not sure to take part in the first race and I exclude I will have a "open source" ready to be released for the first race.
I am in the process of updating my test car to the final rules... and will shortly release all parts as separate components... if anyone wants to use some of my parts, but wants to start somewhere I would suggest start doing your own front wing, as mine will be very basic. 👍👍👍
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:47 pm

5.1.2: It means we can't rotate the hear exchngers at all or that we can rotate them by any direction?
It means you can rotate the top edge forward, but you can’t rotate them sideways.
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm

CAEdevice wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:30 am
Hi, I downloaded the 3D tempaltes.

You did a great job, now the rules are very easy to understand (and respect).

There is a small issue with the fornt eing central mandatory scetion, I can upload a "cleaned" version if you need (or you just cut the right half and re-mirror the left one).

The only doubt I have is about the "minimum" safety cell volume. In my opinion the lower part in the bargeborad region is far to wide and low.

Image

Image
I’ll post a picture tonight of what my car looks like in this region. It is going to be a fact of life that some things in our championship will be different from what the real F1 cars have...
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

CAEdevice
38
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:33 pm
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by CAEdevice » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:16 pm

machin wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:58 pm
I’ll post a picture tonight of what my car looks like in this region. It is going to be a fact of life that some things in our championship will be different from what the real F1 cars have...
Hi Richard.

I don't want to seem critical at all. I really appreciate the enormous work done, you have been able to summarize the very complicated F1 rules in a very simple and rational model.

In this case, however, I cannot understand the reason for the choice, which limits the designer's freedom apparently without a "technical" reason. I know that area well because I used a solution with a very high face last year, so the detail immediately became evident to me.

Give me 10 minutes and I'll try to explain myself better with a drawing.

Ok,here is an example:

STEP: http://www.caedevice.net/SERVER/MVRC/20 ... cell_2.zip

Image

machin
184
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by machin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:38 pm

So I had a quick chat with Matteo 'offline' as it were....

What we've tried to do with these rules is make something very close to F1... in some areas we have more restrictions, in others more freedoms... These rules mean you might not be able to do all the things you've been dreaming up over the closed season: the challenge is to work within the rules and design a better car than your competitors. Unless we find an actual problem with the rules/parts as they're published we won't be changing them; this is the only fair approach for all concerned since times scales are short and as far as we know people might have already started building cars... and so we really need rules stability.

If someone spots what they think is a problem with rules or CAD parts please PM me, with an image showing the problem, so I can look at it and decide if changes are required. :)

Here's a couple of ideas showing what you can do with the tea-tray area: on the left a flat tea-tray, on the right, a ramped tea tray leading up the step plane level... other solutions are possible... :) (and you have a lot of scope for designing some nice step plane leading edges; not the flat leading edge shown here :oops: ).

Image
COMPETITION CAR ENGINEERING -Home of VIRTUAL STOPWATCH

LVDH
29
User avatar
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:23 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by LVDH » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:17 pm

Hi guys,
I have finally uploaded an updated version of MFlow for you guys to use for the championship, sorry it took a bit. You can download it from the MVRC page: https://mantiumchallenge.com/mvrc-files/

Regarding questions about the rules:
The FIA technical regulations are 111 pages and about 40 of them are about aerodynamics. In this challenge we have to find a good balance of being realistic, accessible to a certain amount of people, the small MVRC team has to be able to check compliance to the rules and so on. Richard did the main work and I think he found a very good approach, also compared to previous MVRC years. Now you essentially have a set of geometry that needs to be covered, like safety cell and engine parts and you have so called "legality volumes" in which your geometry has to stay inside.
Image
I do not quite understand what is supposed to be wrong with the safety cell but have my doubts that we can get convinced to change it for this season, so everyone should simply live with it.

I have removed the requirement to send in an image of your car to register. As you all have to start from scratch, this might be a bit difficult for now. Nice images for the page are very welcome though.

Good luck and enjoy.

CAEdevice
38
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:33 pm
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by CAEdevice » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:36 pm

Hi LDVH, what about the required cooling flow? The porous media has the same parameters of 2018?
I will be out of office from next friday to August 5th so I only ave time to test the old KVRC car simply adding the complete modeling of the heat exchangers and 2019 wings and suspensions (...and studing old Variante's projects :) ).
My impression is that cooling will be quite a delicate point.
Last edited by CAEdevice on Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LVDH
29
User avatar
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:23 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post by LVDH » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:43 pm

I have to check, if we forgot to define all this. However, I can tell you that we did take care of this. Actually earlier this year, I bumped into a friend who has now worked in F1 for many years. It was not easy to exactly define the amount of cooling flow needed for certain reasons and because real cars have a lot of radiators. They are not arranged symmetrically left and right and also the air inlet about the driver feeds a few of them. All in all we ended up with similar values seen in the previous MVRC Le Mans years. This is in the end not such a big surprise as the values at the time were chosen carefully and Le Mans and F1 cars are rather similar.