[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
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yinlad
18
Joined: 08 Nov 2019, 20:10

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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So after a crazy week of learning some basic CAD stuff and scrambling to get the car together, I'm both happy and slightly frustrated with the car we submitted.

We made a lot of progress in a week but couldn't manage to get cooling working properly (latest sim shows us at 92% power) and didn't have time to redevelop sidepods so stuck with modified versions of CCE Machin's sidepods from earlier rounds.

I made a substantial upgrade to the front wing late in the week, but that pulled the aero balance forward to 1.5m from 1.8m. Having checked the numbers, running a car with less DF but with a 'perfect' aero balance would have been quicker by half a second it seems. Frustrating to know that an older/worse version of the car would have ended up being quicker. But at the same time I'm happier with the quality of the parts on the 'slower' car so it's a mixed bag emotionally.

I'd like to thank everyone who was on hand to help me get everything up and running, it means a lot and we'll certainly be back for the next season!
MVRC - Panthera

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CAEdevice
47
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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yinlad wrote:
17 Nov 2019, 22:35
So after a crazy week of learning some basic CAD stuff and scrambling to get the car together, I'm both happy and slightly frustrated with the car we submitted.

We made a lot of progress in a week but couldn't manage to get cooling working properly (latest sim shows us at 92% power) and didn't have time to redevelop sidepods so stuck with modified versions of CCE Machin's sidepods from earlier rounds.

I made a substantial upgrade to the front wing late in the week, but that pulled the aero balance forward to 1.5m from 1.8m. Having checked the numbers, running a car with less DF but with a 'perfect' aero balance would have been quicker by half a second it seems. Frustrating to know that an older/worse version of the car would have ended up being quicker. But at the same time I'm happier with the quality of the parts on the 'slower' car so it's a mixed bag emotionally.

I'd like to thank everyone who was on hand to help me get everything up and running, it means a lot and we'll certainly be back for the next season!
It is normal for the first race! Take a look at our crazy (except OK Racing) results of the first race this year .

etsmc
etsmc
7
Joined: 04 Apr 2012, 13:20

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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I realized i was not going to make up a lot of ground with the current car so i have tried a couple of extreme changes, i only had time to do a couple of runs so they are not refined but looking to the next challenge now.
I have tried to go for a more 2021 style floor entry with no barge boards to turn the flow out, its not perfect but it does keep the tire wake out from under the floor.
The other thing i have tried is a diffuser with holes in it (BrawnGP style) just to see how it works.

Hopefully this is more a kin to what LVDH is used to seeing and referring to previously. :P

Car is submitted so you will all see it when the images for the field get released :wink:

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CAEdevice
47
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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The development has been completed, so I can reveal any detail of the 2019 car.

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Koldskaal
24
Joined: 14 May 2019, 10:02
Location: Denmark

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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I have mixed feelings about my final submission. I didnt have time get the balance right, so my submission is basically the result of interpolating my two previous attempts. So yeah, who knows. :D
It seems like CAEdevice is bringing significant improvements. I wish i could say the same about my car. I tried designing a more efficient front wing, and while initially promising it ended up being too disruptive for the rear end. I also tried a new sidepod to reduce the lift, but with the same result. I feel like my car has been balancing on a knifes edge, these past races.
I have made improvements to the diffuser, front wing, the front of the floor and reduced the final rear wing flap to get the car balanced again. So all in all mostly drag reduction, with hopefully a small downforce increase. [-o<
I feel that i have had a surprisingly great season, no matter what happens in Yas Marina :D . And I very much look forward to taking part next season.
Now that the (design) season is over can we talk a bit more openly about our designs? I for one know that i have wasted a lot of time pursuing a double deck diffuser, to exploit the fact that the mandated floor part stops before the legality volume for the sidepod. I can post some pictures when i get home tonight :D .
MVRC - Koldskaal, name: Christian

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CAEdevice
47
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Koldskaal wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 12:09
So all in all mostly drag reduction, with hopefully a small downforce increase. [-o<
That is all I was looking for :)
This time I obtained (I hope) a small efficency improvement.
Koldskaal wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 12:09
I feel that i have had a surprisingly great season, no matter what happens in Yas Marina :D . And I very much look forward to taking part next season.
Now that the (design) season is over can we talk a bit more openly about our designs? I for one know that i have wasted a lot of time pursuing a double deck diffuser, to exploit the fact that the mandated floor part stops before the legality volume for the sidepod. I can post some pictures when i get home tonight :D .
Yeah I think that your first season has been great, expecially if you will be the new champion, but anyway, I don't think a new entrant team has never been so strong.

The double diffuser did not worked for me too. I only added a hole (you can see it in the images above) in order to clean the air that suffered for the shape of the step transitions.

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wb92
5
Joined: 22 Jul 2019, 23:21

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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I had double diffuser for first two races and indeed because of legality boxes and pressure differences there was an issue to properly implement it.

For the last race I pursued a lot to make my floor to work, but it ended up to be so much sensitive for any changes: less rake, more rake, more vortices, less vortices, more clean air in, less air in... everything was so confusing to find out where's the missing performance.
In the end I've found some laptime, but with unfortunately less efficient car - and let's see what it will be with the balance.

I think I made the only car with radiator with bottom of the radiator towards the front (opposite to the rest), which also has plenty of pros and cons, but got the point where it should be from the beginning.

In general I think my car is a bit too complicated in some areas...
MVRC - WBRacing

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variante
133
Joined: 09 Apr 2012, 11:36
Location: Monza

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Nice to see CAEdevice's car in all its glory :D
Pretty aggressive diffuser central area, and the sidepods are incredibly tight!

If my small updates actually work, my car will only be marginally better compared to the last round. But CoP is still a guesstimation game for me, so...

Koldskaal seems a bit pessimistic, so my podium prediction is this:
1 - CAEdevice
2 - Variante
3 - Koldskaal
In any case, i think it's going to be a close call, with WB Racing, JJR and TeamRacing probably ending not far away.

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CAEdevice
47
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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variante wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 15:50
the sidepods are incredibly tight!
I actually struggled a lot with flow separation around the sidepods, you can see the winglets I had to place to keep the flow attached.

From the cooling perspective, I still have margin. In my opinion we are simulating safer cooling flow than (hybrid) F1 cars (and we are taking all 3 m3/s from the sidepods inlets, while F1 also use a spearated HX that takes air from the airscope). I could reduce the inlets very much, but (I can reveal it now) the inlets are so close to front wing axle that a good cooling flow also helps with front downforce: I don't think things work the same with F1 cars). This is partially related to our rules about rake (I will write about it later).


My prediction is:

1) Koldskaal
2) Variante
3) WBRacing/CAEdevice/JJR

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BlakjeKaas
1
Joined: 16 Sep 2018, 18:54

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Hopefully the rules will be more or less the same for following season, as the time between the finalization of the rules and the first race (2 weeks?) was a bit too short for me this season. I already had rough designs based on FIA-regulations before the rules were posted, but they differed too much from the Mantiumchallenge rules, so that was a bit of a pity.

Hopefully I can make some designs in "winter testing" that wouldn't have placed me last in the previous season and then I'll look forward to next season!
MVRC: Tulip Racing

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wb92
5
Joined: 22 Jul 2019, 23:21

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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CAEdevice wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 16:07

I actually struggled a lot with flow separation around the sidepods, you can see the winglets I had to place to keep the flow attached.
Was that separation due to flow features or 'filled up' radiator duct, so air spilled around?
CAEdevice wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 16:07
From the cooling perspective, I still have margin. In my opinion we are simulating safer cooling flow than (hybrid) F1 cars (and we are taking all 3 m3/s from the sidepods inlets, while F1 also use a spearated HX that takes air from the airscope). I could reduce the inlets very much, but (I can reveal it now) the inlets are so close to front wing axle that a good cooling flow also helps with front downforce: I don't think things work the same with F1 cars). This is partially related to our rules about rake (I will write about it later).
Top air inlet (Airscope/Airhorn) is mostly used for intercooler and/or hybrid cooling, don't forget that F1 cars use whole volume of engine bay to get rid of air, where we have especially made ducts for that.

I suffered a lot hoping for some features from F1 cars would work here. General basics yes, getting more into details got me to the dead end with this car, but honestly through that project I wanted to understand a bit more what's going on in F1 aero.
BlakjeKaas wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 19:47
Hopefully the rules will be more or less the same for following season, as the time between the finalization of the rules and the first race (2 weeks?) was a bit too short for me this season. I already had rough designs based on FIA-regulations before the rules were posted, but they differed too much from the Mantiumchallenge rules, so that was a bit of a pity.

Hopefully I can make some designs in "winter testing" that wouldn't have placed me last in the previous season and then I'll look forward to next season!
I don't think rules will stay :) which would be very good for me to build something (almost) from the scratch with no inspiration from real, in this case, F1 cars until 2021.

I must admit that you're more optimistic that I am on laptimes, but if I would place bets on last race it would be:
1) CAEdevice
2) Koldskaal
3) Variante/JJR
4) TeamRacing / me

but who knows - Idadox has still a chance to get me out from top5
MVRC - WBRacing

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CAEdevice
47
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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wb92 wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 21:01

Was that separation due to flow features or 'filled up' radiator duct, so air spilled around?
Flow features, in the area where the sidepods become narrower, especially near the floor.

rjsa
rjsa
51
Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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wb92 wrote:
18 Nov 2019, 21:01

but who knows - Idadox has still a chance to get me out from top5
I wish!

My car will look quite different and I did shave a handful of tents but don’t believe I’ll move up the ranks.

One thing I need to do is forego the rectangular hx and start to be creative on shapes.

etsmc
etsmc
7
Joined: 04 Apr 2012, 13:20

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Koldskaal wrote:
06 Nov 2019, 18:09
And some cross sections:
Front wing, airfoils are all modified naca23012
https://i.imgur.com/MgKq6YB.jpg

Rear wing, airfoils front to back:
Wortmann fx74-Cl5 that I might have modified a bit (I don't remember).
Eppler E423
modified 23012.
https://i.imgur.com/un6zKIZ.jpg
I am sure you could find a bit of performance by playing around with the angles a bit.
Hope you don't mind me asking but what sort of modifications are you making and for what reason? how do you determine what change needs to be made?

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LVDH
44
Joined: 31 Mar 2015, 14:23

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2019 (Grand Prix Cars)

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So guys,
the cars have all arrived for the last race:
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https://mantiumchallenge.com/cars-mvrc-yasmarina-2019/
I did not reenter all the old cars because they simply did not submit a new car for too long now.
TeamRacing had a horrible accident and is all crumbled up. We will have to see what happens with that car.

CAEdevice has already posted quite a few revealing images of his car. It took him a while to discover the trick with the hole in the floor, yet he will probably secure the championship. After the season, I plan to finally write a recap about it. It will contain many numbers. We will see how good people designed their wings and the floors. I esp. waiting for the latter. I think this is where the teams struggled the most (well after getting the cooling flow sorted out).