2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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BMMR61
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 13:02
Location: Australia.

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 11:44
avantman wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 10:07
You couldn’t imagine guys how ludicrous those kind of comments are…
Snap is a mistake. He asked too much grip of that hard tire. To his credit, he saved it really well, defended well down the straight and would have likely kept P4 without team instructing him to let Russell through.

Are we not allowed to say Max makes mistakes?
It was internet suicide to say that of Sir Lewis Who Could Do No Wrong a few years ago! The team cost Max, plain and simple, they did have a better option. To stay out on the used soft. Make the McLaren guys work for it. The hard tyre was known to be "useless". They got the call on the Russell pass wrong too, there's a clause in the regs about overtaking "while being in control". George wasn't.

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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BMMR61 wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 12:08
It was internet suicide to say that of Sir Lewis Who Could Do No Wrong a few years ago! The team cost Max, plain and simple, they did have a better option. To stay out on the used soft. Make the McLaren guys work for it. The hard tyre was known to be "useless". They got the call on the Russell pass wrong too, there's a clause in the regs about overtaking "while being in control". George wasn't.
Max wanted to pit but he obviously didn't know they'd put him on Hards. I agree that the team (and Max) made mistakes. I'm quite surprised they didn't try to hold onto the lead, I know his tires were old but he does know how to defend very hard. Who knows whether he could have forced Norris to overtake off track for couple of laps and then lose the tires.

Sevach
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 12:56
BMMR61 wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 12:08
It was internet suicide to say that of Sir Lewis Who Could Do No Wrong a few years ago! The team cost Max, plain and simple, they did have a better option. To stay out on the used soft. Make the McLaren guys work for it. The hard tyre was known to be "useless". They got the call on the Russell pass wrong too, there's a clause in the regs about overtaking "while being in control". George wasn't.
Max wanted to pit but he obviously didn't know they'd put him on Hards. I agree that the team (and Max) made mistakes. I'm quite surprised they didn't try to hold onto the lead, I know his tires were old but he does know how to defend very hard. Who knows whether he could have forced Norris to overtake off track for couple of laps and then lose the tires.
Verstappen's lap times weren't bad compared to Leclerc and Russell.

Before the SC Max was lapping around 18.5

After the SC he did a 17.0, 17.6, 20.0(Russell bump), 18.1 and 18.0
Leclerc did 17.2, 17.6, 18.1, 18.5 and 19.1
Russell did 17.2, 17.6, 18.8(colision), 17.7 and 18.5


The sideways moment at the restart ruined things(also Red Bull asking him to let Russell by), without that he probably hangs on to 3rd.

rijtuig
rijtuig
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Why mention Lewis in this discussion.

Totally unnecessary.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Anyone knows anything about the reason Red Bull used pre-Miami floor in Barcelona?

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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rijtuig wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 23:26
Why mention Lewis in this discussion.

Totally unnecessary.
No. It was necessary. :P
Can Max get to 110 wins, and 8 titles?
That's what's at stake ultimately. His contract to 2028 was to achieve 8 titles in that time period. I think the FIA liked that initiative also. He did well to amass 4 already. But McLaren and Newey are making things complicated.
For Sure!!

Seanspeed
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
04 Jun 2025, 08:13
No. It was necessary. :P
Can Max get to 110 wins, and 8 titles?
That's what's at stake ultimately. His contract to 2028 was to achieve 8 titles in that time period.
Where on earth are you getting this weird claim from? :/

basti313
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 11:44
avantman wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 10:07
You couldn’t imagine guys how ludicrous those kind of comments are…
Snap is a mistake. He asked too much grip of that hard tire. To his credit, he saved it really well, defended well down the straight and would have likely kept P4 without team instructing him to let Russell through.

Are we not allowed to say Max makes mistakes?
Well, I guess this is some fans discussing nonsense? Both posts are quite poor.
You could see the car snapping around like crazy on every corner. There was simply no tire temperature. the car looked like driving in the rain...just "it is a mistake" is nothing but stirring the pot. That is a substantial setup issue he was driving around. A mistake is surely a part, but the amount of mistake in this issue is rather low.
BMMR61 wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 12:05
Anyone capable of objectivity would admit freely that Max is the current best of the crop. He unseated Lewis who has never had that last 1% that is being confident you're the top dog. Max knows that Oscar is his real threat, and I mean that not just in terms of 2025. .... He needs to keep it clean, not just in Canada and Austria, but for the season if he is to have a chance of stopping the papaya train.
I do not think Oscar is anywhere near in skill terms. But I agree with you, he is the one to win this season, just because he is the only one mentally stable.
The interesting point on 2021 if I look back with the topic "mental stability" is, that I think Lewis was much more stable than Max. Max was far off from stable if we look at Saudi for example, he was just lucky in some parts with the penalties.
Now again...Max basically bottled a big part of his chance for WDC with his mental outburst.

Puts the discussion about the stability, eben illness that some imply on Lando into an interesting picture. Lando is just showing weakness. Can be overcome. Can Max overcome his lunatism?
Don`t russel the hamster!

avantman
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
04 Jun 2025, 15:45
Now again...Max basically bottled a big part of his chance for WDC with his mental outburst.
Talking about chances of winning WDC in the car that is by every meaningful evidence nowhere near the Mclaren is the biggest compliment one can make. That's the ultimate level of appreciation and recognition of his vast superiority as a driver. And, which is more impressive I see that coming not from Max and redbull fans (if there are any) but from Mclaren fans, sports experts and commentators, that seem like they keep ignoring the fact how far behind of the Mclaren the RB21 has been all year and still is after Spanish Grand Prix.
That was the weekend where everyone thought things are gonna get closer and the season will finally and properly start. That, undoubtedly was also Red bull leadership's and Max' own hope, probably even expectation indeed. But the sheer realization that all of that was just an illusion, someone's bad joke came for Max on the first stint when he told GP on the radio he simply had no grip...nowhere near as what 'they'...papaya guys had. Shortly after he was overtaken again on the track known as hard for overtaking, being on the same strategy, same tires, just like at Zandvoort last year. Just like in Miami this year......
He did not bottle any chances for WDC this year. He did not have any already at that moment in time. He made a miracle last year winning in a car that was nowhere near as good as the Mclaren for most of the year. First and foremost not even because his own superb performances, but because of appalling level of Mclaren race team and mistakes of their both drivers.
This year their advantage only grew bigger. This year Mclaren team do not make those mistakes they were making. Contrary to that, it's RBR who make all sorts of operational, strategical mistakes, even mistakes on judgement asking Max let Russell past. They do not have Johnathan on the pitwall and it's far more noticeable than the absence of Newey. Look at their pitstops alone. Sauber was the best, 2.0 pit stop in Spain, by the way.
They as a team would've had a chance to come somewhere near Mclaren to try and challenge and rattle them forcing into mistakes(just like last year), if they were perfect as a team, but they keep making massive mistakes almost every race weekend:
Australia: not calling him in a lap after direct rival Norris foolishly hoping for big crash, a safety car or a red flag. Not just that, they left team's rookie on completely wet track on dry tires. At that stage his crash could only hamper Max and his chances. It looked like they forgot they had the second car. That was truly appalling, I was shocked.

Japan: bad pitstop, nearly costed the lead and the win.
Bahrain: you saw Bahrain. It was probably the worst managed race weekend ever. I don't know... Max forced a miracle and got Gasly in the end to save a couple points.
Miami: that call in the pits looked like a sabotage to me. I cannot really find a different explanation because it was not even close to consider that a mistake. Ok, let's still call it a mistake. Another 6 points gone.
Monaco: kept on gambling for red flag all race, refused to take 6 points in direct fight with the WDC leader.
Spain:.......
Bottom line, this is not the same team anymore. There is no way this team can win it having such car disadvantage.

And if we want to believe in miracles, in that famous long-awaited 'next upgrade' coming in few races, that will change everything and bring the red bull on par with the Mclaren(that I've been hearing and reading for the past year nearly), Max will win it even being 70 points adrift. No sweating too much.
not gonna happen because the trend is very clear - Mclaren are now further ahead than ever before. They were cruising in Barca. And that, by the way, was supposed to be the "red bull track".
Last edited by avantman on 04 Jun 2025, 18:15, edited 2 times in total.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wow long post, but Alonso's been there twice with Ferrari vs Red Bull when Red Bull was clearly the dominant car.
The simple truth is the RB21 is fast enough to get poles. The car has the pace. It just needs a mechanical upgrade to reduce tyre deg. Maybe low speed downforce as well. But overall it's in the same league as McLaren with highspeed downforce, if not a little better. McLaren is just a little better at everything.
The car is in touching distance, but Max is not getting all the podiums. A few times he fell off the podium or win due to errrors. Jeddah corner cutting, Monaco Q3, and here in Barcelona come to mind. He's still very much in the shout to challenge for the title. He has a good base to challenge.
For Sure!!

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Wouter
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max arrived this afternoon in Salzburg for a demo and more.



"Mark Mateschitz Celebrates Mega Party in Salzburg

It's set to be a celebration in his father's spirit when Mark Mateschitz invites no fewer than 1500 guests to Hangar 7 in Salzburg on June 4th. He had it renovated and is celebrating the reopening with many stars and a "race." A confirmed guest, as the "Krone" learned, is new father and Formula 1 World Champion Max Verstappen.
The hangar's reopening will take place on June 4th. It had to be partially renovated because the heavy aircraft on display there had damaged the floor. Fix isn't the only "extra million" the billionaire has conjured up for this architectural makeover.

Verstappen with Piquet in Salzburg?
No fewer than 1500 guests have been invited to this day. Among them are many athletes from the Red Bull universe.
Leading the way will be Formula 1 World Champion and new father Max Verstappen. It's quite possible that he'll be coming to Salzburg for his first major private appearance with his girlfriend Kelly Piquet (and perhaps also with his baby Lily).
He'll be competing in a "race" with other stars, both old and young. The race will take place partly on the street in front of the venue and also on the edge of the airfield. Adequate catering at the level of the in-house two-star restaurant Ikarus will be included.

Mateschitz himself came up with the idea – entirely in the spirit of his father, Dietrich Mateschitz (†2022), who opened Hangar-7 with a similar ceremony in 2003."
Last edited by Wouter on 04 Jun 2025, 20:17, edited 1 time in total.
The Power of Dreams!

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Wouter
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max in Salzburg a few hours ago for a demo in Seb's RB8 car.

The Power of Dreams!