2026 Scuderia Ferrari HP F1 Team

[johnnycesup]

Secondly, since these ICE gains are presumably the result of more complete fuel combustion, you end up with more exhaust gases.

The post mentions the compression ratio thing and that by itself increases the thermal efficiency of the Otto cycle even if there is no change in the combustion characteristics, so more power. So that's what I was thinking of, I could be wrong of course (and again the post could be made up)

[bananapeel23]

Secondly, since these ICE gains are presumably the result of more complete fuel combustion, you end up with more exhaust gases.

The post mentions the compression ratio thing and that by itself increases the thermal efficiency of the Otto cycle even if there is no change in the combustion characteristics, so more power. So that's what I was thinking of, I could be wrong of course (and again the post could be made up)

Oh I'm certain it is. ADUO is still likely to bring a substantial power increase, but I'd be shocked if it ended up being as much as 8 tenths from ICE power alone, as well as 4 tenths from the MGU-K software. I could see increased deployment efficiency and better cooling efficiency bringing 2-3 tenths, but 8 tenths from the ICE seems wildly optimistic. If they get 2 ADUO upgrades I could see that being a bit more realistic.

My uneducated guess is that the ADUO package (software + ICE + cooling) will be worth anywhere from 4-6 tenths, with the aero package (including new floor and macarena mk. 2) bringing another 2-4 tenths. On the conservative side of that range they are breathing down the neck of the current Mercedes (but not after Mercedes have brought their own upgrades). On the optimistic side they are at parity +- 2 tenths.

So in the best case scenario they might catch up to, or just barely overtake Mercedes, while a more conservative scenario results in the gap perhaps being halved.

If Ferrari somehow manages to get 2 ADUO upgrades it will be an entirely different story. If they are 4% down on ICE power, they must have an insurmountable chassis/aero advantage to be as close as they are. If they get 2 ADUO upgrades and get the ICE power gap to +-1%, they would end up cruising to both championships off the back of their aero, while Haas could end up as a legitimate podium contender.

[CRazyLemon]

Which of the following information from the Italian media is pure fantasy, and which is actually feasible?

Key Technical Upgrades:

Combustion & Fuel: A new piston crown design and high-pressure fuel from Shell allow the ICE to hit the 16:1 compression limit. This generates "virtual horsepower," reducing the burden on the MGU-K.

Just this paragraph alone makes the story suspect, a "piston crown" is hardware and that is homlogated. Fuel is also homlogated, so where does new fuel come from?

[K1Plus]

No engine component on the ICE can be upgraded before ADUO.
Only software updates, as far as I understand.

[PlatinumZealot]

happy easter everyone!
Motorsport IT saids that Ferrari could have ADUO2 (over 4% from the benchmark) but doesn't mention the other constructors. They said that Honda and Audi will have ADUO1 and RB will have nothing because is so close to mercedes.
Now, I know these are just rumors but, If these are true, Ferrari have the weakest ICE of the paddock? Even weaker than Honda? It's hard to believe. If this is true they must have a very very strong car on the corners.

They lost their credibility. RB said they would have ADU01.

[djones]

If its granted they can improve the engine, what it the timescale for the release of that upgrade?

[Sevach]

If its granted they can improve the engine, what it the timescale for the release of that upgrade?

They can update whenever they want, the only thing said is that it must be done before the end of the year, because it's non cummulative.

Once Ferrari gets this approved it's up to the team wether to push updates the very next race or keep cooking until they find something GOOD.

[Fakepivot]

why have engine development restriction in the first place? there no development restriction for aero and chassis, we already have cost cap.

[Sbrillo88]

If its granted they can improve the engine, what it the timescale for the release of that upgrade?

They can update whenever they want, the only thing said is that it must be done before the end of the year, because it's non cummulative.

Once Ferrari gets this approved it's up to the team wether to push updates the very next race or keep cooking until they find something GOOD.

I think that if they will get 1 upgrade for the year they will postponed a little and bring it in the middle of the season.
If they will have 2 upgrades, they will try their best to bring the first one as soon as possible and introduce the other one when it will be ready, with no rush.

[Sylv1]

If it is true that Ferrari has access to aduo 2, this means that they are behind Audi and Honda !?! in terms of PU performance. how is this possible???

[CRazyLemon]

Orignally posted in the general car thread but it seems it isn't active much.

I've ben trying tp understand the ADUO properly. I understand the two thresholds, over 2% but under 4% s 1 upgrade in 2026 and 1 in 2027. Over 4% 2 upgrades in 2026 and 2 in 2027.

Does this mean no 2027 homologation process leading into the start of the season unless it is an ADUO upgrade?

Assuming Mercedesne never end up 2% or more behind, does it mean this is their unit until next regs? Theoretically they could end up permanently behind by 1.8%?

I assume the ADUO assessments cary on in 2027 I'd expect Mercedes to still be working on an upgrade package until they inevitably are behind by 2% that could provide an 18 month development cycle and effectively a potential for a mega upgrade, how do they (FIA) see convergence happening when really it looks like a leapfrogging scenario unfolding?

[SiLo]

If it is true that Ferrari has access to aduo 2, this means that they are behind Audi and Honda !?! in terms of PU performance. how is this possible???

It's basically not an updated engine from last year. Just adjusted for the new rules.

[bananapeel23]

why have engine development restriction in the first place? there no development restriction for aero and chassis, we already have cost cap.

So that Mercedes can't compound their advantage. They want to shorten the "engine formula" part of the regulation cycle as much as possible by giving the lagging teams a chance to catch up mid-season. By necessity it becomes a tokenized system, but at least it shouldn't prevent others from catching up like the old token system did.

I assume the ADUO assessments cary on in 2027 I'd expect Mercedes to still be working on an upgrade package until they inevitably are behind by 2% that could provide an 18 month development cycle and effectively a potential for a mega upgrade, how do they (FIA) see convergence happening when really it looks like a leapfrogging scenario unfolding?

I think leap-frogging is a feature, rather than a bug. If you want to avoid 2014-esque dominance, you want to hold the leader up while the others catch up. Once the leader has been overtaken, the others will get to build an advantage off their better PU. Then soon enough, Mercedes will get their own chance to leapfrog the others back. Then you get leapfrogging every 6 races or until the PU advantage becomes small enough that ADUO is no longer possible.

In theory the teams should eventually leapfrog their way to the point of diminishing returns.

Again, ADUO is meant to avoid the unprecedented dominance of the Mercedes PU in 2014-2016. They would rather have fairly artificial PU leapfrogging than years of one PU completely dominating the rest.

[ScuderiaLeo]

If it is true that Ferrari has access to aduo 2, this means that they are behind Audi and Honda !?! in terms of PU performance. how is this possible???

There were reports that very late last year, Ferrari had to backtrack their PU formula because of reliability concerns. So the PU currently in the car is not the one they originally wanted and isn't exactly their best work.

I'm not convinced Ferrari is behind Audi but I can definitely believe Red Bull, because their chassis seems to be struggling whereas Ferrari's isn't.

[Sbrillo88]

If it is true that Ferrari has access to aduo 2, this means that they are behind Audi and Honda !?! in terms of PU performance. how is this possible???

There were reports that very late last year, Ferrari had to backtrack their PU formula because of reliability concerns. So the PU currently in the car is not the one they originally wanted and isn't exactly their best work.

I'm not convinced Ferrari is behind Audi but I can definitely believe Red Bull, because their chassis seems to be struggling whereas Ferrari's isn't.

I don't find it anymore, maybe was taken down from f1 for copyright, but I saw an analysis video of Japan qualifying from PU stand point. Seemed pretty legit for me. According to that video, (apart mercedes and Honda that weren't in the analysis) Audi have a strong ICE, Red Bull is better, Ferrari is the weakest of the three. I don't know about Honda, but during the winter some rumors said that ICE was good and not so far away from mercedes. Also Marko, when he still was in Red Bull, saids that Ferrari was behind them and Audi. I thought this so crazy but now all seems take shape.
Even Autoracer, and they are very close to Ferrari, said that in ferrari weren't very pleased with the engine and they encountered a lot of problems during the winter. Now, we know that they suspended the 26 engine project due to lack of reliability and switch to an adjustment of the 2025 ICE. No one believed in that and the performance of the car in test seems to contrast those rumors.
We'll patiently wait and see. They also during a live (in response to my question), said that the new engine could be ready for spa, not before. Especially if ferrari will have just ADUO1.