[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Lucky
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Lando Q3

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Xero wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:03 pm
Contrary to popular belief, I don’t think Mclaren will struggle much integrating the Mercedes PU, unless the car concept is seriously compromised by the different layout... At least from a mechanical perspective, the team is already working on the integration plan and wouldn’t expect too many surprises in that regard.

The Mercedes step will be carry over to next year with potential additional performance if they upgrade it between seasons (which is to be expected)... It will be interesting to watch what Mclaren can accomplish with the best PU on the grid... If they can maintain or shorten the gaps to RBR, Ferrari and RP this season, the could finally be in a position to fight for podiums in 2021... Fighting Mercedes is impossible though.
I agree, don't think it will cause any issues either. It's all pure speculation, but a 4 or 5 tenths gain isn't outside the realm of possibility. Would definitely put them into the podium mix. First things first, the car needs to continue on it's strong development path. Expecting Ferrari and Red Bull to make massive progress over the course of this season, McLaren need to match that.
Exactly! Unless RBR has a fundamental problem with their 2020 car, it is expected that they will get on top of the issues they are facing and have a decent amount of improvement over the course of the season... Which is a similar situation to Ferrari... Mclaren must take advantage of this situation and while the other 2 are spending time trying to understand where the problems are, Mclaren needs to keep developing the car.

I’ll say that today was a very welcomed surprise in terms of performance, I would have expected the Racing Points to be farther ahead of Mclaren in Qualifying and beating Stroll (because it’s an unfair to make a comparison to Hulk) didn’t had a high probability (Stroll did messed up his las Q3 lap in the first sector though)... The RP-W10 is still slightly ahead of the MCL35, but within catching distance to take advantage of days like today... You need to be close in order to take advantage of any mistakes and we are definitely closer than expected.

I’m afraid than in the race, the RP still has an slight advantage to the MCL35, but we can fight with them for P4 - P5 tomorrow... As well as with Leclerc... Good points are definitely on the cards and hopefully no shenanigans in the PitStops tomorrow.


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Darth-Piekus
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I think that we closed the gap after the upgrades we brought with RP since it was worse in Hungary. I expect to outdevelop them quickly in the following couple of races and surpass their car as I am not sure how much more they can get from a fully upgraded car while ours is still base.

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Darth-Piekus wrote:I think that we closed the gap after the upgrades we brought with RP since it was worse in Hungary. I expect to outdevelop them quickly in the following couple of races and surpass their car as I am not sure how much more they can get from a fully upgraded car while ours is still base.
No car is perfect and like explained before, the more they race this car, the more they will learn about and continue to improve... I wouldn’t be surprised if they also start bringing updates to their car... The W11 is an evolution of the W10 and that car is already 1 second ahead of everyone else, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they are already working on copying some of the bits of the W11 to incorporate them to their car.

On the other hand, upgrades rarely bring half a second improvement, so we should probably expect a tight fight all through the season (the season is also very short if it ends on December)... Can Mclaren edge them? They could, but it won’t be easy... Having a car that can fight them and best them based on a better overall operation is doable (Drivers, Strategy, PitStops, etc.)


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proteus
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:00 pm
Xero wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:03 pm
Contrary to popular belief, I don’t think Mclaren will struggle much integrating the Mercedes PU, unless the car concept is seriously compromised by the different layout... At least from a mechanical perspective, the team is already working on the integration plan and wouldn’t expect too many surprises in that regard.

The Mercedes step will be carry over to next year with potential additional performance if they upgrade it between seasons (which is to be expected)... It will be interesting to watch what Mclaren can accomplish with the best PU on the grid... If they can maintain or shorten the gaps to RBR, Ferrari and RP this season, the could finally be in a position to fight for podiums in 2021... Fighting Mercedes is impossible though.
I agree, don't think it will cause any issues either. It's all pure speculation, but a 4 or 5 tenths gain isn't outside the realm of possibility. Would definitely put them into the podium mix. First things first, the car needs to continue on it's strong development path. Expecting Ferrari and Red Bull to make massive progress over the course of this season, McLaren need to match that.
Exactly! Unless RBR has a fundamental problem with their 2020 car, it is expected that they will get on top of the issues they are facing and have a decent amount of improvement over the course of the season... Which is a similar situation to Ferrari... Mclaren must take advantage of this situation and while the other 2 are spending time trying to understand where the problems are, Mclaren needs to keep developing the car.

I’ll say that today was a very welcomed surprise in terms of performance, I would have expected the Racing Points to be farther ahead of Mclaren in Qualifying and beating Stroll (because it’s an unfair to make a comparison to Hulk) didn’t had a high probability (Stroll did messed up his las Q3 lap in the first sector though)... The RP-W10 is still slightly ahead of the MCL35, but within catching distance to take advantage of days like today... You need to be close in order to take advantage of any mistakes and we are definitely closer than expected.

I’m afraid than in the race, the RP still has an slight advantage to the MCL35, but we can fight with them for P4 - P5 tomorrow... As well as with Leclerc... Good points are definitely on the cards and hopefully no shenanigans in the PitStops tomorrow.


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The bigger and bigger problem for a team like Mclaren is DRS. If the start goes well, after 3 laps both Mercedes cars, Max and Charles will be out of the reach, while Lance, Daniel and others will have the tow and DRS all the time, while Norris being the sitting duck with full deployment and higher engine mode. This causes stress to components, and drains fuel supply.

Following cars get huge racelong advantage, because they can manage to save fuel, deployment and components to attack mid-race and then simply drive away due to the acumulated reserves. Ofcourse a following car can have overheating issues, and higher tyre degradation but modern drivers are more then capable of keeping this things under sufficient control, not to mention an army of engineers in the background.

However we look at the situation, Mclaren is in crappy position where they are a bit faster than rest of the midfield (qualifying), but not faster enough in race to break away sufficiently to get themself out of danger. It doesnt help either that car aparently needs few laps to get itself into its comfort zone.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

Macklaren
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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If this is true, the car at risk is LEC. I fully expect both McLarens to be faster than him in the race, and Lando said so as well in the post quali interview

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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proteus wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:00 pm
Xero wrote: I agree, don't think it will cause any issues either. It's all pure speculation, but a 4 or 5 tenths gain isn't outside the realm of possibility. Would definitely put them into the podium mix. First things first, the car needs to continue on it's strong development path. Expecting Ferrari and Red Bull to make massive progress over the course of this season, McLaren need to match that.
Exactly! Unless RBR has a fundamental problem with their 2020 car, it is expected that they will get on top of the issues they are facing and have a decent amount of improvement over the course of the season... Which is a similar situation to Ferrari... Mclaren must take advantage of this situation and while the other 2 are spending time trying to understand where the problems are, Mclaren needs to keep developing the car.

I’ll say that today was a very welcomed surprise in terms of performance, I would have expected the Racing Points to be farther ahead of Mclaren in Qualifying and beating Stroll (because it’s an unfair to make a comparison to Hulk) didn’t had a high probability (Stroll did messed up his las Q3 lap in the first sector though)... The RP-W10 is still slightly ahead of the MCL35, but within catching distance to take advantage of days like today... You need to be close in order to take advantage of any mistakes and we are definitely closer than expected.

I’m afraid than in the race, the RP still has an slight advantage to the MCL35, but we can fight with them for P4 - P5 tomorrow... As well as with Leclerc... Good points are definitely on the cards and hopefully no shenanigans in the PitStops tomorrow.


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The bigger and bigger problem for a team like Mclaren is DRS. If the start goes well, after 3 laps both Mercedes cars, Max and Charles will be out of the reach, while Lance, Daniel and others will have the tow and DRS all the time, while Norris being the sitting duck with full deployment and higher engine mode. This causes stress to components, and drains fuel supply.

Following cars get huge racelong advantage, because they can manage to save fuel, deployment and components to attack mid-race and then simply drive away due to the acumulated reserves. Ofcourse a following car can have overheating issues, and higher tyre degradation but modern drivers are more then capable of keeping this things under sufficient control, not to mention an army of engineers in the background.

However we look at the situation, Mclaren is in crappy position where they are a bit faster than rest of the midfield (qualifying), but not faster enough in race to break away sufficiently to get themself out of danger. It doesnt help either that car aparently needs few laps to get itself into its comfort zone.
The first few laps will be critical, that’s for sure... But, starting on Softs could actually play into their advantage if what Pirelli estimates as the fastest strategy does play out (Softs - Hards)... We can’t forget that the Softs are roughly 0.9 seconds faster than Mediums and if temperatures are cooler tomorrow, they will also be up to temperature faster than the mediums.

Norris will have a chance to challenge Leclerc who is on mediums at the start of the race and based on both cars race pace, he has a genuine chance of winning a position in those first laps... If he manages to do that and build a gap to break from the DRS, his chances improve dramatically (he will be running on free air since we would expect the Mercs and Max to build a quick gap to P4 in a few laps.

Carlos is in a similar position to Lando, facing Stroll who is also on Mediums.

But, the most critical part of their strategy will be in regards to their Pit Window... They can’t afford to pit and be placed in traffic, since they are advantage towards the cars in Mediums will be the extra pace of fresh Hards versus tired Mediums on their in lap.

They have good chances for a solid amount of points... Just starting in front of both Renaults is already a plus since they have the same tire compound, Hulk will probably struggle just a bit to be up to pace and I would expect Albon / Vettel / Hulk to have a good scrap behind the top 10 at least at the beginning of the race... Is there potential to lose out to Stroll at the beginning of the race or due to their apparent Tire Advantage? Sure... But even if they finish P6 - P7, it would be a great result at Silverstone.

I don’t think that there is enough pace difference with Vettel and Albon for them to overtake Mclaren or the Renault’s for that matter... Of course, anything can happen in the race :)


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proteus
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:04 pm
proteus wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:00 pm

Exactly! Unless RBR has a fundamental problem with their 2020 car, it is expected that they will get on top of the issues they are facing and have a decent amount of improvement over the course of the season... Which is a similar situation to Ferrari... Mclaren must take advantage of this situation and while the other 2 are spending time trying to understand where the problems are, Mclaren needs to keep developing the car.

I’ll say that today was a very welcomed surprise in terms of performance, I would have expected the Racing Points to be farther ahead of Mclaren in Qualifying and beating Stroll (because it’s an unfair to make a comparison to Hulk) didn’t had a high probability (Stroll did messed up his las Q3 lap in the first sector though)... The RP-W10 is still slightly ahead of the MCL35, but within catching distance to take advantage of days like today... You need to be close in order to take advantage of any mistakes and we are definitely closer than expected.

I’m afraid than in the race, the RP still has an slight advantage to the MCL35, but we can fight with them for P4 - P5 tomorrow... As well as with Leclerc... Good points are definitely on the cards and hopefully no shenanigans in the PitStops tomorrow.


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The bigger and bigger problem for a team like Mclaren is DRS. If the start goes well, after 3 laps both Mercedes cars, Max and Charles will be out of the reach, while Lance, Daniel and others will have the tow and DRS all the time, while Norris being the sitting duck with full deployment and higher engine mode. This causes stress to components, and drains fuel supply.

Following cars get huge racelong advantage, because they can manage to save fuel, deployment and components to attack mid-race and then simply drive away due to the acumulated reserves. Ofcourse a following car can have overheating issues, and higher tyre degradation but modern drivers are more then capable of keeping this things under sufficient control, not to mention an army of engineers in the background.

However we look at the situation, Mclaren is in crappy position where they are a bit faster than rest of the midfield (qualifying), but not faster enough in race to break away sufficiently to get themself out of danger. It doesnt help either that car aparently needs few laps to get itself into its comfort zone.
The first few laps will be critical, that’s for sure... But, starting on Softs could actually play into their advantage if what Pirelli estimates as the fastest strategy does play out (Softs - Hards)... We can’t forget that the Softs are roughly 0.9 seconds faster than Mediums and if temperatures are cooler tomorrow, they will also be up to temperature faster than the mediums.

Norris will have a chance to challenge Leclerc who is on mediums at the start of the race and based on both cars race pace, he has a genuine chance of winning a position in those first laps... If he manages to do that and build a gap to break from the DRS, his chances improve dramatically (he will be running on free air since we would expect the Mercs and Max to build a quick gap to P4 in a few laps.

Carlos is in a similar position to Lando, facing Stroll who is also on Mediums.

But, the most critical part of their strategy will be in regards to their Pit Window... They can’t afford to pit and be placed in traffic, since they are advantage towards the cars in Mediums will be the extra pace of fresh Hards versus tired Mediums on their in lap.

They have good chances for a solid amount of points... Just starting in front of both Renaults is already a plus since they have the same tire compound, Hulk will probably struggle just a bit to be up to pace and I would expect Albon / Vettel / Hulk to have a good scrap behind the top 10 at least at the beginning of the race... Is there potential to lose out to Stroll at the beginning of the race or due to their apparent Tire Advantage? Sure... But even if they finish P6 - P7, it would be a great result at Silverstone.

I don’t think that there is enough pace difference with Vettel and Albon for them to overtake Mclaren or the Renault’s for that matter... Of course, anything can happen in the race :)


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It would all make sence if Pirrelli would actually know anything about their tyres...but what happens when come raceday is, that everything comes completely opposite of what they say it will be.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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Jackles-UK
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Both cars on the clean side of the grid on grippier tyres off the line than the cars around them should make for an interesting/exciting first lap. Race pace, particularly from Carlos, was excellent on Friday so that’s positive but if the soft tyres wear like they did I’d be staggered if it’s possible on a one stop, they were completely falling apart in 6-8 laps. A two stop S/M/M maybe a good option seeing as pitstop lost time is one of the smallest deficits on the calendar so multiple stops is less painful.

holeindalip
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I have a feeling the Merc pu going in the back next year is going to be a big boost on race pace. I don’t think the Renault is very good fuel efficient wise, just look at the last few laps in Austria when Lando was pushing to get within 5 sec. of Hamilton. He had plenty of pace when pushing, but when just cruising for the race pace it’s not crazy powerful. I believe the merc pu will help substantially with this.....

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:40 pm
fouad1979 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:29 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:26 pm


Yeah but McL will have the best of a Merc engine which will put them in front of RP and maybe even RBR
Yes ur right but do u think that mercedes advantage is only power for me no their aero is very impressive
I completely agree, but I do think we will be closer to them. Obviously RP can change their car so they will be up there too, but it will be interesting to see how close we can get to RB. This year is a development war through the whole season to get a strong car ready for next year. RP will just buy the new bits if that loophole doesn't get closed, but I'd like to think it will.
Well if you go by the fastest laps mapping between RP and McL in FP2 a few pages back, it didn't show that McL had any lacking of power. All the time was being lost under braking and slow corners. It wasn't a definative mapping but a hint.


Also the first year we switched from Honda to Renault we went backwards. Ok, alot of personel have changed but it's easy to get something wrong when you increase the variables that you're manipulating.

Emag
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:35 am
mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:40 pm
fouad1979 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:29 pm


Yes ur right but do u think that mercedes advantage is only power for me no their aero is very impressive
I completely agree, but I do think we will be closer to them. Obviously RP can change their car so they will be up there too, but it will be interesting to see how close we can get to RB. This year is a development war through the whole season to get a strong car ready for next year. RP will just buy the new bits if that loophole doesn't get closed, but I'd like to think it will.
Well if you go by the fastest laps mapping between RP and McL in FP2 a few pages back, it didn't show that McL had any lacking of power. All the time was being lost under braking and slow corners. It wasn't a definative mapping but a hint.


Also the first year we switched from Honda to Renault we went backwards. Ok, alot of personel have changed but it's easy to get something wrong when you increase the variables that you're manipulating.
The change from Honda to Renault was much more difficult. For starters, McLaren didn't have enough time to make that many adjustments to the car because they made the switch too late. The MCL-33 was designed to be raced with a Honda engine in the back. And secondly, it seems like the Renault engine is one of the worst in terms of packaging and it was much more bulkier than Honda at the time. Compromises had to be made to fit that engine. And the base 2018 car wasn't good to begin with, so any compromise hurt them a lot.

This time is different because McLaren have started to design their 2021 car with the Mercedes PU in mind. I know that with the frozen regulations they are somehow limited on how much they can change, but FIA has made it clear that McLaren will be able to change everything they need to fit that engine. Also, this car (2020) seems like a very good base so far. It is reacting to changes and the team has good correlation.

For these reasons, I think this engine switch will resemble tge RedBull Honda switch more so than the previous McLaren Renault switch.

Ground Effect
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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AMuS had a report recently on the PU power charts for 2020. The pecking order was obviously no surprise, with Mercedes top and Ferrari bottom. Interestingly, they had Renault ahead of Honda, but only on peak power, i.e what’s available during qualifying. But based on the race modes, Honda has the advantage over Renault, with more power available during the race. So I guess it’s fair to say that with the HP deficit to Mercedes, (which they pegged at 25bhp, by the way) the MCL35 chassis compares quite well to RP’s W10, to be able to keep them (RP) so honest.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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adrianjordan
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Emag wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:51 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:35 am
mwillems wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:40 pm


I completely agree, but I do think we will be closer to them. Obviously RP can change their car so they will be up there too, but it will be interesting to see how close we can get to RB. This year is a development war through the whole season to get a strong car ready for next year. RP will just buy the new bits if that loophole doesn't get closed, but I'd like to think it will.
Well if you go by the fastest laps mapping between RP and McL in FP2 a few pages back, it didn't show that McL had any lacking of power. All the time was being lost under braking and slow corners. It wasn't a definative mapping but a hint.


Also the first year we switched from Honda to Renault we went backwards. Ok, alot of personel have changed but it's easy to get something wrong when you increase the variables that you're manipulating.
The change from Honda to Renault was much more difficult. For starters, McLaren didn't have enough time to make that many adjustments to the car because they made the switch too late. The MCL-33 was designed to be raced with a Honda engine in the back. And secondly, it seems like the Renault engine is one of the worst in terms of packaging and it was much more bulkier than Honda at the time. Compromises had to be made to fit that engine. And the base 2018 car wasn't good to begin with, so any compromise hurt them a lot.

This time is different because McLaren have started to design their 2021 car with the Mercedes PU in mind. I know that with the frozen regulations they are somehow limited on how much they can change, but FIA has made it clear that McLaren will be able to change everything they need to fit that engine. Also, this car (2020) seems like a very good base so far. It is reacting to changes and the team has good correlation.

For these reasons, I think this engine switch will resemble tge RedBull Honda switch more so than the previous McLaren Renault switch.
Agreed.

Also I suspect that Mclaren can be a bit clever around the tokens and bring "updates" to this year's car at the last race to help offset any disadvantage they have due to the token system. That's what I'd do anyway - even at the expense of performance in the last race.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Ground Effect
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Does anybody know if McLaren can do any work on the suspensions during the course of this season, or is that area frozen already? Or can it be done during the off season or is it an area that requires token use?
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.