2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:54 am
The letting go of Abeitboul is part of a deeper restructuring. Renault has been trying to cut costs and corners the whole way, they essentially took the stay behind and copy route. The end result of copying others was them gaining the insights but not the engineering involved in ironing out the kinks. For one reason or another they've always been behind the others, because copying others is easier than making it yourself. I suppose whatever philosophy was driving the Renault engine program had a let's catch up instead of lead the way as it's probably more cost effective. This is not the philosophy of a winner, that's the philosophy of a midfielder. Hiring Budkowski someone who knew what everyone was doing with their engines screams a we rather copy that innovate.

Recently Renault has changed its philosophy, they want to increase investment in their engines, and to change philosophy requires restructuring. Similar to how McLaren had to restructure in order to change its philosophy.

Red Bull was rightly pissed because their philosophy is push the limits of innovation in every FASTENER, while Renault is a let's be mediocre because we want to save money.
Yes you make some very good points about their copying philosophy. To also add Renault for years not just in the chassis era but the engine era going back to 2015 had the philosophy we are Renault we can do more with less.
Berger was even back then complaining saying Renault engine division had 1/3 the budget, 1/3 the staff, very outdated, primitive equipment/dynos etc.
And Cyril back even in 2015 when they had the engine arguments every week with Horner kept harping on that Renault can compete like this as they can do more with less. It was evident it was not possible then nor now.
Renault seems to have had this philosophy but so did Cyril as he agreed and enabled this philosophy of we can do more with less. Doing more with slightly less is possible sure. Similar equipment but slightly less budget for example. But not massively less with 1/3 the budget of Merc and with outdated equipment so there is a big difference when Cyril/Renault talks about doing more with less.

Contrast this to Siedl who as soon as he joined Mclaren never once said he can do more with less. He said we can never compete with Mercedes until we close the massive infrastructure deficit, simulator deficit and build a new wind tunnel. He was realistic and management listened to him. He made it very clear from day 1 its impossible to compete and do more with less infrastructure especially. And now they have a plan to fix this issue over the next few years. Seidl is a top manager, Cyril from day 1 proved he is not on a level of a top manager. He was aiming to fight for the championship with Merc after 3 years even with his plan/budget which is impossible. Renault after 5 years in 2020 ended up 5th and even that was lucky as Ferrari got caught out with the engine issues otherwise if Ferrari was there every race like they were from 2015-2019 Renault would have been behind Ferrari in 6th and likely zero podiums.

Hopefully the new management can push Renault forward!

PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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He was a long serving TP in F1, he did a decent job against teams with much more budget. Yes some years were disappointing, but I think that was the aero and chassis teams. To get Ricc was a coup- and really brought excitement. I don’t buy the frustrated/disgruntled thing, there’s been 2-3 examples given.. in around 6 years of employment. Any way it’s an exciting new beginning for the team, I hope Cyril left under decent terms, he’s a long serving Renault employee. ‘Bon chance Cyril, merci
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

Sevach
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Image

Winter livery suppousedly, they'll have something else for the season.

haza
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Cars designated the A521

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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haza wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:24 am
Cars designated the A521
Why have they named it after a road in Stoke-on-Trent? Hardly rolls off the tongue

Still, I suppose the A-Cinq-Deux-Une has a certain ring to it

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:40 am
haza wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:24 am
Cars designated the A521
Why have they named it after a road in Stoke-on-Trent? Hardly rolls off the tongue

Still, I suppose the A-Cinq-Deux-Une has a certain ring to it
Does it matter? People will call it the Alpine

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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haza
haza
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:40 am
haza wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:24 am
Cars designated the A521
Why have they named it after a road in Stoke-on-Trent? Hardly rolls off the tongue

Still, I suppose the A-Cinq-Deux-Une has a certain ring to it
Was waiting for this 🤣🤣🤣

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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The-race.com is trying to start a narrative that something is wrong because they didn’t acknowledge Cyril leaving. But the thing is they did already acknowledge it and had statements from Cyril himself so the article is just there for clicks.

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:42 pm
The-race.com is trying to start a narrative that something is wrong because they didn’t acknowledge Cyril leaving. But the thing is they did already acknowledge it and had statements from Cyril himself so the article is just there for clicks.
Until the announcement of his departure I thought all of the indication in the media was that he was going to promoted to head up Alpine?

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Sevach wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:51 am
https://twitter.com/thomasmaheronf1/sta ... 28449?s=20

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErrljRuXIAE ... name=large

Winter livery suppousedly, they'll have something else for the season.
Glad it's only temporary or it would be a pain telling them apart from the Mercedes from some angles. Shame to lose that lovely yellow and black that's been the Renault livery of late though. Always nice looking cars.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:49 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:42 pm
The-race.com is trying to start a narrative that something is wrong because they didn’t acknowledge Cyril leaving. But the thing is they did already acknowledge it and had statements from Cyril himself so the article is just there for clicks.
Until the announcement of his departure I thought all of the indication in the media was that he was going to promoted to head up Alpine?
That’s the problem, the media assumed something they have no way of confirming and then are surprised when it’s not true.

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:58 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:49 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:42 pm
The-race.com is trying to start a narrative that something is wrong because they didn’t acknowledge Cyril leaving. But the thing is they did already acknowledge it and had statements from Cyril himself so the article is just there for clicks.
Until the announcement of his departure I thought all of the indication in the media was that he was going to promoted to head up Alpine?
That’s the problem, the media assumed something they have no way of confirming and then are surprised when it’s not true.
Well I find it strange that this was not discussed by the team and no statements have been made either. Don’t you? It is rather unprecedented

Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:14 pm
diffuser wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:56 pm
It was known that Abiteboul was being moved to a less F1 centric job. My guess is he didn't like where he was being pushed. He tried to negotiate something better. When it became apparent that was NOT gonna happen he quit, to remove himself as the bridge to the new team he was going to be, in an effort to punish Alpine/Renault.
While that might make a nice Netflix episode I seriously doubt that is what happened. The best way to leave a project is to empower it so it reflects best on yourself. If you leave it in a worse state that doesn’t make you look any better.
FACTS

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:42 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:54 am
The letting go of Abeitboul is part of a deeper restructuring. Renault has been trying to cut costs and corners the whole way, they essentially took the stay behind and copy route. The end result of copying others was them gaining the insights but not the engineering involved in ironing out the kinks. For one reason or another they've always been behind the others, because copying others is easier than making it yourself. I suppose whatever philosophy was driving the Renault engine program had a let's catch up instead of lead the way as it's probably more cost effective. This is not the philosophy of a winner, that's the philosophy of a midfielder. Hiring Budkowski someone who knew what everyone was doing with their engines screams a we rather copy that innovate.

Recently Renault has changed its philosophy, they want to increase investment in their engines, and to change philosophy requires restructuring. Similar to how McLaren had to restructure in order to change its philosophy.

Red Bull was rightly pissed because their philosophy is push the limits of innovation in every FASTENER, while Renault is a let's be mediocre because we want to save money.
@Mclarensenna
Seidl didn't do any of those things you mentioned. Zak did. They were all in place when he got hired. It was Zak that said we'll be ready for 2021(now 2022) when they switched to Renault. The main reason, he said, was "that until there is a CAP we can't compete." Paraphrasing Zak there.

Financially, on the chassis side, there has not been much of a difference between McLaren and Renault. They both suffered from spending half what the top 3 spend.

It has been that they wanted to stay in F1 but not spend like the big boys. From that point of view, he did what he could. I have no clue why he made such lofty goals for himself though. Like EB, those got him into trouble.
Last edited by diffuser on Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.