Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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skoop
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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hamilton will fly one day later to brazil, becouse he's sick. the Team says he will be racing this weekend

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Where does Rosberg go from here?
How long before a fluke becomes a pattern, or a pattern becomes a trend? Not every driver is fortunate enough to drive the best car in Formula 1 for a single season, let alone two, but Nico Rosberg has been that fortunate - just not fortunate enough to convert that opportunity into a world championship victory.
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2013
Hamilton: 1 win, 5 podiums, 5 poles, 189 points (4th in the championship)
Rosberg: 2 wins, 4 podiums, 3 poles, 171 points (6th in the championship)

2014
Hamilton: 11 wins, 16 podiums, 7 poles, 384 points (1st in the championship)
Rosberg: 5 wins, 15 podiums, 11 poles, 317 points (2nd in the championship)

2015 (Till Mexico GP)
Hamilton: 10 wins, 15 podiums, 11 poles, 345 points (1st in the championship)
Rosberg: 4 wins, 14 podiums, 5 poles, 272 points (2nd in the championship)

2013-2015
Hamilton: 22 wins, 36 podiums, 23 poles, 818 points, 2 world titles
Rosberg: 11 wins, 33 podiums, 19 poles, 760 points, 0 world titles
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If Rosberg cannot become Mercedes' 'alpha male', perhaps he needs to search for a new home? One where he can establish himself as the undisputed leader, and take Hamilton on from afar without the potentially suffocating pressure of responsibility to a shared corporate identity.

Rosberg's current Mercedes deal expires at the end of next year. He remains a very fine grand prix driver at present, but what he does over the next 12 months could make or break his ultimate destiny in Formula 1.
In the modern era, I do not know another pair of drivers who have driven together longer, than Vettel and Webber. The five years that they were together in a team, Vettel came out on top every season. Nico and Lewis have been together for three years now and in all three seasons, Lewis has outdone Nico.

You can find a lot of stray instances when either of them have been at the receiving end for no fault of their own. But over the three years, it has been clear that Lewis has become the de facto Number one in the team.

Nico's contract comes to an end next year. If 2016 turns out to be another Mercedes dominated season, Nico would no doubt will continue to do what he has been doing. But, if another team out there, would parallel Mercedes in performance, then the first few races would be critical for Nico. If he fails to out perform Lewis, I am afraid, he would be officially relegated to support Lewis in championship hunt. If that happens, Mercedes might be happy to keep him as he is fast driver, but would Nico want to be in a team where he sees no chances of winning with a team mate who would be out performing him for 4 straight years, unless he accepts his destiny the way Webber did?

If indeed it happens that Nico is unable to perform in 2016, would he want to give a try to Ferrari? Nico's contract at Mercedes ends next year and Kimi's contract at Ferrari too, ends next year.
Last edited by GPR-A duplicate2 on Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

astracrazy
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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If i'm going to be honest i think next year the gap between Lewis and Nico will be highlighted if ferrari and maybe another team are much closer. The gap is less apparent because they have such an advantage but once teams get closer, i think one or two drivers will slip into this gap and Nico falls down the championship further.

IF this happens i dont' think he stays at Merc and i don't see him going to another top team.

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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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GPR-A wrote:Nico's contract comes to an end next year. If 2016 turns out to be another Mercedes dominated season, Nico would no doubt will continue to do what he has been doing. But, if another team out there, would parallel Mercedes in performance, then the first few races would be critical for Nico. If he fails to out perform Lewis, I am afraid, he would be officially relegated to support Lewis in championship hunt. If that happens, Mercedes might be happy to keep him as he is fast driver, but would Nico want to be in a team where he sees no chances of winning with a team mate who would be out performing him for 4 straight years, unless he accepts his destiny the way Webber did?
I'm not sure I see it that dramatic. Mercedes doesn't need a number 1 and a number 2 driver. Who ends up in which position is entirely up to their own doing and performance. What we've seen is simply Lewis come out on top to win both championships so far. There is no defacto #1 driver at Mercedes.

If I was Nico, and I'm saying this as a Hamilton supporter through and through, I'd take great comfort in the following stats you quoted:

Hamilton: 23 poles
Rosberg: 19 poles

That is extremely impressive. And I've always been one to put a lot of weight on qualifying performance as it's probably the most authentic measure of ultimate pace with the fewest room for outside factors influencing the stat. Yes, Lewis had a lot of bad luck in 2014 in regards to qualifying that might have influenced a few qualifying sessions in Rosbergs favor - but even so, Rosberg had a positive head-to-head stat in dry qualifying for quite a bit into 2014.

On points, by the end of this season, the difference might be as little as 5% to each other. Not that this is a very meaningful number; In two seasons where both Mercedes drivers were usually battling each other with the occasional Ferrari, it's obvious that the point difference would end up rather close. Still, the difference between 1st and 2nd is more than 5% (25 ~ 18 => 28%), so for both to be seperated by nearly 5% is also impressive.

Lastly, yes, in wins, Hamilton has double the amount which is rather shattering, but again, in two seasons where only ever the Mercedes were really driving for wins, it's only logical that when one driver wins, the other isn't. So the number is exaggerated to a degree. What speaks in Hamilton favor however is that from nearly the same amount of poles, he was able to convert more into wins. In 2014, it seemed Hamilton was overall a lot stronger in races and this has also been the case in many races of 2015. Still, as Nico, I'd take a lot of comfort in knowing that he is absolutely able to beat Lewis every now and then. He's had very strong races, most notable worthy this year in Barcelona and Mexico where he has shown that he can win qualifying and control the race. This year has been very one-sided as a result of Hamilton starting extremely strong.

2016 could go very different if both drivers start more level; Then you will see both driving with less comfort and overall more pressure. And with the speed Nico has, I wouldn't discount him at any point.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Phil wrote:There is no defacto #1 driver at Mercedes.

I hope you are right. I am sure, even Lewis doesn't want it to be like that. He wants to go against a strong team mate and win. But I don't think that's how any organization will look at it, when they have a 3 time world champion. Ask yourselves this question. If next year, another team becomes competitive and Lewis fails to perform in first few races and Nico performs well where there is stiff competition. Would Mercedes ask Lewis to play support cast? How about other way round? What's more. Look at the pay packages.
Phil wrote: If I was Nico, and I'm saying this as a Hamilton supporter through and through, I'd take great comfort in the following stats you quoted:

Hamilton: 23 poles
Rosberg: 19 poles

That is extremely impressive.
If I was Nico, there is nothing in those numbers to make me feel happy, because the bottom line is, I have lost 2 opportunities to become world champion. Especially, where I have been convincingly beaten this year. Unlike last year, I never led the championship this year even once. These numbers conceal more than what they reveal. You need to look at the popular perception. In fact, I would have been happy after 2014 situation, but definitely not after 2015.
Phil wrote:2016 could go very different if both drivers start more level; Then you will see both driving with less comfort and overall more pressure. And with the speed Nico has, I wouldn't discount him at any point.
What does this even mean? Are you saying, there was something that was not equal between the two, in terms of the equipment or treatment that they got from Mercedes?

kptaylor
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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astracrazy wrote:If i'm going to be honest i think next year the gap between Lewis and Nico will be highlighted if ferrari and maybe another team are much closer. The gap is less apparent because they have such an advantage but once teams get closer, i think one or two drivers will slip into this gap and Nico falls down the championship further.

IF this happens i dont' think he stays at Merc and i don't see him going to another top team.
Why? Wasn't Ferrari trying to get Webber as their #2 rather than Kimi? Why wouldn't they want a solid driver with Vettel to help them capture the WCC? Nico helps Mercedes by being strong. I don't think Mercedes cares who wins the WDC as long as they win the WCC.

astracrazy
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Nico has helped merc by being strong? How? They have by far the best car and bar failures or singapore his guaranteed at least 2nd. What i'm saying in my post is once teams pull in Merc how strong will he be then?

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Phil
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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GPR-A wrote:If I was Nico, there is nothing in those numbers to make me feel happy, because the bottom line is, I have lost 2 opportunities to become world champion.
I'm convinced deep down, every driver knows his limits. Sometimes, this includes knowing that you just fall short, that the other driver is that bit better. Doesn't mean it should stay that way - it's a moving target. You get better with experience, sometimes you end up with a car that matches your abilities better. What would give me great comfort in the qualifying spec is that on the face of it, it's evenly matched. Yes, indeed Hamilton had a bit of bad luck, but that merely prevented him to contest pole - there's no guarantee he would have actually gotten it (in 2014). So the numbers are what they are. And they mean that Rosberg is very close to Hamilton.

Which brings me to my next point...
GPR-A wrote:What does this even mean? Are you saying, there was something that was not equal between the two, in terms of the equipment or treatment that they got from Mercedes?
...it means, that sometimes circumstances come together differently which change the overall outcome. I call it "psychological" edge, in other sports, they represent it as a "momentum bar". It can be best explained by the case that a team leading 3:0 is usually more likely to score a 4:0, than a 3:1 happening. Because momentum shifts so far in one direction that that team or individual suddenly plays with a certain amount of confidence that makes him an even stronger opponent. I think Lewis had this going for him especially this year. He got the poles (usually in his first attempt) and overall he seemed very much at ease this year until the WDC was all but in the bag. Nico also suffered a DNF in the worst possible moment.

My point is quite simple; If Rosberg can start next season strong with the kind of qualifying strength he has shown the last 4 races, things could turn out different. If you start on pole - assuming a clean start - you are at an advantage. You start on the clean side of the track and this usually amounts to an advantage. Assuming you maintain your position into the first few corners, it also means that the benefit of running in clean air and the priority on pit calls mean that you are in the best possible position to control and win the race. Rosberg has this quality, he has shown it on numerous races - even if on other races, he failed to capitalize on it. Fact is; Rosberg is more likely to win the race if he starts on pole, rather than behind his team-mate. So his qualifying performance needs to be there. He has got that ability.

If he can grab a few wins and start the season strong - that will give him more confidence that will more likely than not result in stronger performance and thus making him a harder opponent to beat. On the other hand, this will have a negative effect on your opponent who might try too hard - perhaps overdrive, make mistakes. These drivers are human after all and I believe this is precisely why we've seen Hamilton lock up on numerous occasions in qualifying last year, or this year when he was behind his team-mate like in Hungary.

I'm not suggesting Rosberg is the better driver - I don't believe that - but I think the circumstance has come together for Lewis nicely and given him even more confidence (while Rosberg has been lacking it this year) and that has resulted in him bagging the WDC so early. If next year Rosberg can start strong, it might be an overall closer battle and that might lead to both making more errors instead of the rather one sided first half of the season this year.

And then of course you always have circumstance that might play a role too. You know, a bit of bad luck, a strategic error, a strong Ferrari, a safety car messing up the perfect strategy. You never know who might benefit off such a circumstance. It just might play into Rosbergs favour you know. I think he's good enough to at least contest a WDC title if he can keep up his qualifying performance and control the races from front.

Do I think it's likely? Not necessarily. I think the odds are there that Hamilton will come out in front by the end of the year. I'm just pointing out why IMO that is anything but a certainty.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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Juzh
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Hamilton wrecking himself :D :
http://www.thisisf1.com/2015/11/13/butt ... -hamilton/

Gotta let off some steam, right? I don't blame the guy.

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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GPR-A wrote:Where does Rosberg go from here?
How long before a fluke becomes a pattern, or a pattern becomes a trend? Not every driver is fortunate enough to drive the best car in Formula 1 for a single season, let alone two, but Nico Rosberg has been that fortunate - just not fortunate enough to convert that opportunity into a world championship victory.
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.
.
2013
Hamilton: 1 win, 5 podiums, 5 poles, 189 points (4th in the championship)
Rosberg: 2 wins, 4 podiums, 3 poles, 171 points (6th in the championship)

2014
Hamilton: 11 wins, 16 podiums, 7 poles, 384 points (1st in the championship)
Rosberg: 5 wins, 15 podiums, 11 poles, 317 points (2nd in the championship)

2015 (Till Mexico GP)
Hamilton: 10 wins, 15 podiums, 11 poles, 345 points (1st in the championship)
Rosberg: 4 wins, 14 podiums, 5 poles, 272 points (2nd in the championship)

2013-2015
Hamilton: 22 wins, 36 podiums, 23 poles, 818 points, 2 world titles
Rosberg: 11 wins, 33 podiums, 19 poles, 760 points, 0 world titles
.
.
.
If Rosberg cannot become Mercedes' 'alpha male', perhaps he needs to search for a new home? One where he can establish himself as the undisputed leader, and take Hamilton on from afar without the potentially suffocating pressure of responsibility to a shared corporate identity.

Rosberg's current Mercedes deal expires at the end of next year. He remains a very fine grand prix driver at present, but what he does over the next 12 months could make or break his ultimate destiny in Formula 1.
In the modern era, I do not know another pair of drivers who have driven together longer, than Vettel and Webber. The five years that they were together in a team, Vettel came out on top every season. Nico and Lewis have been together for three years now and in all three seasons, Lewis has outdone Nico.

You can find a lot of stray instances when either of them have been at the receiving end for no fault of their own. But over the three years, it has been clear that Lewis has become the de facto Number one in the team.

Nico's contract comes to an end next year. If 2016 turns out to be another Mercedes dominated season, Nico would no doubt will continue to do what he has been doing. But, if another team out there, would parallel Mercedes in performance, then the first few races would be critical for Nico. If he fails to out perform Lewis, I am afraid, he would be officially relegated to support Lewis in championship hunt. If that happens, Mercedes might be happy to keep him as he is fast driver, but would Nico want to be in a team where he sees no chances of winning with a team mate who would be out performing him for 4 straight years, unless he accepts his destiny the way Webber did?

If indeed it happens that Nico is unable to perform in 2016, would he want to give a try to Ferrari? Nico's contract at Mercedes ends next year and Kimi's contract at Ferrari too, ends next year.
Just so we know, Hamilton has 918 ppints, not 818. So he has scored 158 points more than Rosberg since joining the team.

How much is one point worth?
Felipe Baby!

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SectorOne
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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SiLo wrote:How much is one point worth?
Um, one i suppose?
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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SectorOne wrote:
SiLo wrote:How much is one point worth?
Um, one i suppose?
I meant in terms of dollar value. The teams get awarded money for constructors points. So far, Hamilton has been worth more than Rosberg to Mercedes. Especially with the seeming drop in interest from German fans.
Felipe Baby!

ScottB
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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Personally I'd suspect that Nico might find himself replaced after next season, in 2017 Lewis will be 32 I think, so maybe have a couple more seasons left, the time would be perfect to sign up a talented youngster to groom as the future team leader, whether that's the kid who won DTM this year, Verstappen or whoever, I suspect the start of next season will be key, if Lewis comes out the gate as he did this year, Rosberg may find himself out...

Of course he is a damn fine, quick driver, but so was Mark Webber, so was David Coulthard and so on. He's unlucky to be paired with a great driver, as they were too.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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I think you should have watched qualifying the last five races though. Webber and DC never could dominate like that. 5 poles in a row!

If Nico can keep this up for next year he can have another shot! And if he does it again in 2017 he might just slip one past Lewis.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2015

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I think you should have watched qualifying the last five races though. Webber and DC never could dominate like that. 5 poles in a row!

If Nico can keep this up for next year he can have another shot! And if he does it again in 2017 he might just slip one past Lewis.
Last year in fact, he got more poles than this year. So?