2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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bhall II
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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Facts Only wrote:I'll have to correct you there. They didn't deliberatly 'tank' seasons but there was no aim to win either so plugs didnt need to be pulled. They were follwing a very deliberate curve laid out in 2010 that ended in 2014 with WDC and WCC.

I expect Renault to do something similar, I dont expect Ferrari to learn anything from it.
I imagine Norbert Haug probably sees things a bit differently.

Even so, I think you're quite right to believe that Ferrari won't follow a similar path. As we've seen over the last few years, there's just not enough discipline in Maranello for the team to do anything that requires tempering an emotional drive for instant gratification.

What Ferrari calls "passion," I call "immaturity."

scrudriver
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Vasconia wrote:
ME4ME wrote:
Facts Only wrote:What I have asked myself always if why Michael decided to take part on this. There was no real chance fo them to fight for the championship in at least 3 years.
I'd imagine the true passion for someone like Michael is the struggle to build a team into something great. Certainly fits his historical behavior.

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SR71
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Michael didn't goto Ferrari alone - he went with brawn and anyone familiar with how Michael got into F1 knows they were a package.

Unfortunately Ferrari doesn't have this package. They have a couple of A class parts but nobody understands how to put it together.

This isn't IKEA.

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FW17
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Merc 2014 project started only in 2012, not very extraordinary. This would have been line of thinking in other teams as well, may be Merc was 6 months ahead.

The team leaders of the 2014 project were hired only in 2012, there was not much learning going on there between 2010-2013.

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bauc
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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FW17 wrote:Merc 2014 project started only in 2012, not very extraordinary. This would have been line of thinking in other teams as well, may be Merc was 6 months ahead.

The team leaders of the 2014 project were hired only in 2012, there was not much learning going on there between 2010-2013.
Yes but this is a period when Mclaren, Ferrari & Red Bull were fighting for the championship every race while the Mercedes team quietly and without pressure worked on 2014.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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scrudriver wrote:
Vasconia wrote:
ME4ME wrote:
I'd imagine the true passion for someone like Michael is the struggle to build a team into something great. Certainly fits his historical behavior.
Yes, but being 40 years old it was too optimistic to think that he was going to continue in F1 in 2014.

Facts Only
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FW17 wrote:Merc 2014 project started only in 2012, not very extraordinary. This would have been line of thinking in other teams as well, may be Merc was 6 months ahead.

The team leaders of the 2014 project were hired only in 2012
Not sure where you have got this 'info' from but you are wrong by a long way.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Facts Only wrote:
FW17 wrote:Merc 2014 project started only in 2012, not very extraordinary. This would have been line of thinking in other teams as well, may be Merc was 6 months ahead.

The team leaders of the 2014 project were hired only in 2012
Not sure where you have got this 'info' from but you are wrong by a long way.
Costa, Willis join Mercedes GP as it strengthens technical team
[color=#0000FF]By Pablo Elizalde, Published on Friday September 30th 2011[/color] wrote:Former Ferrari technical director Aldo Costa will join the Mercedes GP team alongside Geoff Willis, the German manufacturer confirmed on Friday.
Mercedes to switch half its workforce to 2014 car by May
[color=#0000FF]ESPN Staff, April 24, 2013[/color] wrote:Mercedes 2014 project is being overseen by Geoff Willis while Aldo Costa heads up development of the 2013 car. Both report to technical director Bob Bell and team principal Ross Brawn and Wolff said the decision has been made to put the majority of its focus on 2014 from May onwards.
Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorspor ... QZ6TDEw.99
After getting hired at the end of 2011, neither Costa, nor Willis were part of 2012 car. While Costa started his work on 2013 car at the beginning of 2012 (after serving Gardening leave), Geoff Willis moved over to the 2014 design.

Mike Elliott joins Mercedes from Renault in July 2012.
New aerodynamics chief signed at Mercedes

In 2012, Mercedes also went through their Wind Tunnel upgrade, scaling it from 50% model to 60%. All development froze for W03 that year after the first half.

Daimler take full ownership of the Mercedes F1 team after buying out partner Aabar
2012 is also the time when Mercedes took 100% after Aabar exited the partnership. They also increased the staff size in 2012.

2014 PU Regulations were confirmed in June 2011.
FIA confirms 1.6-liter turbo V6 F1 engines for 2014

Andy Cowell becomes to lead for 2014 PU Development. - Published on Tuesday December 11th 2012
Andy Cowell to take over as chief of Mercedes' Formula 1 engine arm

Facts Only
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Post as many Autosport articles as you like but in very early 2011 the work was already well underway with team leaders already in place. More so on the PU side, the fact that even though the V6 rules were confimred by June 2011 and an I4 already existed says it all.

Autosport only reports on movements of people they have actually heard of, most engineers keep there heads down and well away from the media.
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FW17
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Read ross brawn interview on JAF1 where he mentions of Merc wanting to pull out in 2011 end.

As of that year end they hardly had enough staff to manage the design of their current car because of them following the RRA

noname
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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FW17 wrote:Read ross brawn interview on JAF1 where he mentions of Merc wanting to pull out in 2011 end.

As of that year end they hardly had enough staff to manage the design of their current car because of them following the RRA
In the 2nd half of 2010 some suppliers and technical partners were already involved in developing 2014 car.
I can not comment much on the chassis/suspension/aero/etc, but work on PU was already ongoing.

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FW17
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Ever since turbo formula was rumoured all engine manufacturers would have had research projects on the same.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Facts Only wrote:Post as many Autosport articles as you like but in very early 2011 the work was already well underway with team leaders already in place. More so on the PU side, the fact that even though the V6 rules were confimred by June 2011 and an I4 already existed says it all.

Autosport only reports on movements of people they have actually heard of, most engineers keep there heads down and well away from the media.
All you are doing is just gassing through thin air without providing any credible source for what's fixed in your mind and denying the information available in public forum.

You are also forgetting the fact that, Norberg Haug had to leave at the end of 2012 because of the miserable situation the team had reached to. Schumacher did not renew the contract as he did not see any hope to continue further. In 2012, there were lots of shareholder cries to dry up the investment in F1, which Daimler did resisted and provided time and money for Brawn's grand plan.

Mercedes lucked into producing a good PU, that ended up being the benchmark for the competition. Most importantly, they had built up an organization that was strong enough to make use of every opportunity available. Can that be repeated, is that a template to be followed? I am not sure.

bhall II
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The Telegraph wrote:“We started thinking about [PU design] almost as soon as [Brawn] was bought by Mercedes [in 2010],” [Nick] Fry told Telegraph Sport. “It presented the best opportunity of overhauling Red Bull, so resources were dedicated to it from a very early stage."

Facts Only
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Re: 2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

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GPR-A wrote:
Facts Only wrote:Post as many Autosport articles as you like but in very early 2011 the work was already well underway with team leaders already in place. More so on the PU side, the fact that even though the V6 rules were confimred by June 2011 and an I4 already existed says it all.

Autosport only reports on movements of people they have actually heard of, most engineers keep there heads down and well away from the media.
All you are doing is just gassing through thin air without providing any credible source for what's fixed in your mind and denying the information available in public forum.

You are also forgetting the fact that, Norberg Haug had to leave at the end of 2012 because of the miserable situation the team had reached to. Schumacher did not renew the contract as he did not see any hope to continue further. In 2012, there were lots of shareholder cries to dry up the investment in F1, which Daimler did resisted and provided time and money for Brawn's grand plan.

Mercedes lucked into producing a good PU, that ended up being the benchmark for the competition. Most importantly, they had built up an organization that was strong enough to make use of every opportunity available. Can that be repeated, is that a template to be followed? I am not sure.
Credible source: My own memory, of my own job.

I'm not forgetting anything about Norbert leaving, his fairwell speech was pretty heartbreaking for everyone there.

Lucked in to producing a good PU, yeah O.K mate. Of course it wasnt the dedication, and hard work of everyone involved, they just blindly lucked into it. Jeez, I keep forgetting how pointless it is trying to put actual information on the internet.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver