2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:43 pm
makecry wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:07 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:05 pm
I hear a lot on hear about Mclaren's suspension issues. Does anybody know if they're actively working on a fix for 2018, or it can only be addressed next year?
TBH, it's just a speculation. We don't actually know what their problems are but we have speculated that they are traction issues stemming from the mechanical components.
EB in an article reference yesterday in this forum stated the problem was slow corners. He didn't come out and say it was the suspension.

Just that they had to run more DF to compensate.

It did sounds like a rear suspension issue..


In another articale where he was asked why not just throw in the towel on this years development and just switch to the 2019 car, He said that he was confident they could resolve the issue and then use was they learn in the MCL34.
Autosport said in the winter the following about the suspension:
Now McLaren has gone a step further, with the whole upper elements forged into a near single unit to help create an aerodynamic boost.

The pickup point of the pushrod link has been moved as far away from the rear wheel as possible to help free up airflow.



Teams are constantly battling the effects of airflow inside the rear wheels and any developments to reduce external interference here will be welcomed by the aerodynamicists.

The move does create potential suspension compromises in terms of weight and stiffness.

But McLaren will almost certainly have concluded that the aero benefits of its approach outstrip these negatives.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:46 pm
Mclaren has to promise a good amount of money and total freedom to Newey or Brawn and of course show them a plan that will persuade them to come back. I don't see why they can't bring them back.
Newey turned down Ferrari at least twice, for a lot of money! Brawn said he didn't fancy returning to a team, I think Mclaren looked at him before Zak. If my memory serves me, Ron wanted Ross as well, before Capito was hired.
I think Newey has found his home in Red Bull, can't see him leaving, except maybe if the team is sold and he doesn't like the new structure. He's even working on hyper cars for Aston Martin.
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Alonso Fan
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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McMika98 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:22 pm
All the hype and now we have Mclaren solidly embedded in the midfield and fighting to stay in the group. Strange race, everyone in midfield was within few seconds just not able to overtake or pull a gap. Vandoorne finishing ahead of just Sirotkin and behind both Saubers, how the mighty have fallen.
You're like a broken tape recorder.
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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Alonso Fan wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:30 pm
McMika98 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:22 pm
All the hype and now we have Mclaren solidly embedded in the midfield and fighting to stay in the group. Strange race, everyone in midfield was within few seconds just not able to overtake or pull a gap. Vandoorne finishing ahead of just Sirotkin and behind both Saubers, how the mighty have fallen.
You're like a broken tape recorder.
I wish he was broken, he's like a working tape recorder :lol:

Jolle
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Many people are pointing just anywhere to find someone responsible (EB is the main focus on this forum I think) but I’m convinced the problem isn’t what McLaren has, but more what it’s missing.

All the top teams were taught a lesson by Mercedes in 2014 how you intergrate your PU, aero and chassis from day one. Ferrari, Renault and to some extent RefBull closed the gap on that. Now still on the chassis side you can see how it’s all balanced to perfection, with an engineering management making the different departments working as one. At McLaren it seems they still haven’t got that synergy, not even between chassis and aero, let alone PU. If you look at their self produced documentary, McLaren misses leadership. Everybody with crossed arms together around a table comfertable with missing deadlines.

So. A strong director with a better line then “we must keep Fernando happy” and a capible technical director/manager who sees the balances between the departments and can bring them together.

And I still suspect one of the main reasons for Alonso to push for Renault was so he could sign for Toyota and still have a well paid F1 seat.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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this is something that was discussed back in may but if you look at the connection of the pullrods to the rear suspension. They're alot closer to the middle that any other team I've looked at .. never understood why. I always thought that the wider apart they go the more pull you get.

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RonDennis
RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:02 am
Many people are pointing just anywhere to find someone responsible (EB is the main focus on this forum I think) but I’m convinced the problem isn’t what McLaren has, but more what it’s missing.

All the top teams were taught a lesson by Mercedes in 2014 how you intergrate your PU, aero and chassis from day one. Ferrari, Renault and to some extent RefBull closed the gap on that. Now still on the chassis side you can see how it’s all balanced to perfection, with an engineering management making the different departments working as one. At McLaren it seems they still haven’t got that synergy, not even between chassis and aero, let alone PU. If you look at their self produced documentary, McLaren misses leadership. Everybody with crossed arms together around a table comfertable with missing deadlines.

So. A strong director with a better line then “we must keep Fernando happy” and a capible technical director/manager who sees the balances between the departments and can bring them together.

And I still suspect one of the main reasons for Alonso to push for Renault was so he could sign for Toyota and still have a well paid F1 seat.
They are looking at that, but those changes take time. I'm pretty sure it's crisis in Woking, but some people in here actually think McLaren is happy when they reach Q3 and being 1,5 seconds slower than Red Bull.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:29 pm
Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:46 pm
Mclaren has to promise a good amount of money and total freedom to Newey or Brawn and of course show them a plan that will persuade them to come back. I don't see why they can't bring them back.
Newey turned down Ferrari at least twice, for a lot of money! Brawn said he didn't fancy returning to a team, I think Mclaren looked at him before Zak. If my memory serves me, Ron wanted Ross as well, before Capito was hired.
I think Newey has found his home in Red Bull, can't see him leaving, except maybe if the team is sold and he doesn't like the new structure. He's even working on hyper cars for Aston Martin.

You need to do what Ferrari did and find the Next Newey. OK, whether he's the next Newey is still a long way off but when the new regs came out Ferrari was way ahead of RBR. Basically it someone that was promoted from within.

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diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:46 pm
Mclaren has to promise a good amount of money and total freedom to Newey or Brawn and of course show them a plan that will persuade them to come back. I don't see why they can't bring them back.
Probably cause they don't need the money. When you've made the money they have over the last 20 years..money stops being a motivator.

Newry is on the record that he'll retire when he leaves RBR and Ross, at FIA, is retired.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:18 am
this is something that was discussed back in may but if you look at the connection of the pullrods to the rear suspension. They're alot closer to the middle that any other team I've looked at .. never understood why. I always thought that the wider apart they go the more pull you get.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Deb5kgoWAAAISrY.jpg:large
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201803 ... 769d08.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXMo1DwXUAAJyBU.jpg
https://i.redditmedia.com/68lMicoibCuco ... 847d1210cd
Motion ratio, the closer to the upright the pull rod is connected, the lower the installation stiffness needed. This is because there is lower lever action. The closer inboard you locate the pull rods the higher the installation stiffness needed because the control arm introduces a lever action. The closer the pullrod is connected to the chassis relative to the upright the lower the effective spring rate. But this isn't necessarily bad, I still think the problem is aero and not suspension. Better aero will fix 80% of their issues once they get the setup sorted.
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techman
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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i have to say mclaren could be the next williams if not for alonso over achieving everytime. just image if you had hartley in there with vandorne.. that will terrible

M840TR
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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JonoNic wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:57 pm
godlameroso wrote:They're .8 seconds faster than they were last year, probably due to the tires.

https://i.imgur.com/f1Plxjb.jpg

This is the reason they're slow I hope to god this piece breaks off in the race so they can have the pace to wind up in the points.
Wow! That flap looks almost perpendicular to the direction of travel.
Side effects of small wheelbase; exact reason Ferrari went for longer car and crash structure ahead of sidepods to increase bargeboard size and hence aero efficiency

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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Time for Peter Prodromu to go! I never saw him as any better than any other aerodynamaicist, it was Newey's coat tail he was riding all along. His car is 1.5 seconds slower than his old master's.

techman
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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i wonder if the mclaren runs a stiff suspension. normally softer suspesion does help to get more mechanical grip but the downside is you dont get the aero to work properly. overall the mclaren was never a good car. it was always good in fast corners thats why eric usually boast about gps trace last year blaming honda for everthing but the reality they ran max drag to achieve fast cornering, but they were always lack ing mechanical grip which hondas Arai complained to mclaren in 2015 but they never did anything to fix it instead blamed Arai .funny , what goes around comes around

makecry
makecry
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:15 am
Time for Peter Prodromu to go! I never saw him as any better than any other aerodynamaicist, it was Newey's coat tail he was riding all along. His car is 1.5 seconds slower than his old master's.
His solutions are being copied up and down the grid. Car is a dog mechanically. Aero wise it seems fine.