2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

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marmer
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:29 pm

Raleigh wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:18 pm
Leaves a seat empty at STR but Kvyat is on contract or could give Albion a shot.

Not saying it’s likely to happen but if everyone involved was happy with the idea it could happen.
Personally id give it to whoever else they might be giving the seat to

For a comparison to Hartley

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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:19 pm

well, given that they didn't even allow him to participate in the Abu Dhabi test, I can't really see Red Bull letting Ricciardo move early

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dodds_turbo
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:31 pm

search wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:19 pm
well, given that they didn't even allow him to participate in the Abu Dhabi test, I can't really see Red Bull letting Ricciardo move early
Vettel was tied in to a contract with RBR when he moved. Christian/Marko made a comment along the lines of "if he no longer wants to race for the team it's best we let him leave..".

It might be best to let Dan leave, and bring in Gasly if they want to maximise their chances for the last few races.

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:45 pm

Whatever Christian says, I don't believe an honest word.

bill shoe
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:16 pm

Daniel has had more than half of the bad luck this year, but it's not a statistically significant sample which means no reason to call sabotage. Also, right after Daniel won pole in Mexico, remember how hugely enthusiastic the RB mechanics were in the garage? All huge genuine smiles and high-fives. Didn't seem like a group of people that were sabotaging anyone.

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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:42 pm

yeah, I don't think that he implied to say anything like that, Ricciardo was (understandably) just very downbeat after the race. He'll be fine and fully motivated again when we head to Brazil

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:57 pm

WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:45 pm
Whatever Christian says, I don't believe an honest word.
Thanks for -1 me! Hope you feel proud to do that...

If Christian slams Renault for their poor quality in the past and now suddenly praises Renault for this race, then I don't really value his opinion too much.

Sieper
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:36 pm

Come on Waiku, if you are going to post a one sentence post just slagging someone. How is that beneficial to anybody. Just put some arguments in there and perhaps keep a more neutral tone and I am sure we will learn something from your viewpoint and at the very least you won't get minused.

Diesel
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:45 pm

dodds_turbo wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:31 pm
search wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:19 pm
well, given that they didn't even allow him to participate in the Abu Dhabi test, I can't really see Red Bull letting Ricciardo move early
Vettel was tied in to a contract with RBR when he moved. Christian/Marko made a comment along the lines of "if he no longer wants to race for the team it's best we let him leave..".

It might be best to let Dan leave, and bring in Gasly if they want to maximise their chances for the last few races.
Not quite true. There was a performance clause in his contract, if he got a top 3 finish in the WDC RB would have an option on him. Funily enough I think he came 4th that year?
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP

Edax
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:08 pm

bill shoe wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:16 pm
Daniel has had more than half of the bad luck this year, but it's not a statistically significant sample which means no reason to call sabotage. Also, right after Daniel won pole in Mexico, remember how hugely enthusiastic the RB mechanics were in the garage? All huge genuine smiles and high-fives. Didn't seem like a group of people that were sabotaging anyone.
I think the problem is not so much with the RB mechanics. Verstappen told that Renault delivered minimal support at this point and that “you have to chase and check everything they are doing”. That would be fully understandable. If I were Renault I would also start to move my best assets and focus towards Mclaren. That may be part of the problem.

Why his side of the garage has more problems?
* It could be dumb luck, as you say the statistics are meager.
* It could be a cascading effect where one failure triggers the next. For instance one breakage means that they have to rush refurbishing the next unit, which in turn fails, etc. upsetting the whole spare pool.
* It could be that the garage team on the other side is just better. I mean we saw two TR retire because one mechanic stuck a few pieces of tape on the wrong place. It is a job done by humans, and worse than that, done by a team of humans.
* You could even think of a driver related effect. VES builds engines as a hobby, and he has a homemade dyno in his garage. Perhaps he is better in pinpointing problems early and relaying them to the engineers. But then again he also has had a string of breakdowns in the past.

I agree willfull sabotage is the least likely option. If they disliked RC so much he would have been replaced. Nobody gets better from seeing a RB standing next to the track. If The sponsors wanted that kind of exposure they would just have rented space on a trackside billboard. That is a lot cheaper.

zac510
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:23 pm

You also have to compare race failures with practice failures. For statistical purposes they are the same thing. If we add them all up there might be another driver that has had as many failures as RIC, but RIC has been unfortunate to have them all in the race which just makes it bad luck.

carisi2k
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:40 pm

zac510 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:23 pm
You also have to compare race failures with practice failures. For statistical purposes they are the same thing. If we add them all up there might be another driver that has had as many failures as RIC, but RIC has been unfortunate to have them all in the race which just makes it bad luck.
Daniel has had a lot of both practice and race failures. He even won the monaco grand prix with a broken kers. But I think it is more bad luck then any malice towards Daniel. The RB14 is quick but just a tad fragile.

Edax
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:42 pm

zac510 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:23 pm
You also have to compare race failures with practice failures. For statistical purposes they are the same thing. If we add them all up there might be another driver that has had as many failures as RIC, but RIC has been unfortunate to have them all in the race which just makes it bad luck.
True, but Looking at the element usage that should’t be the case here. Daniel had more things break on him than most renault drivers (except for the Hulk who had a few shunts)

https://maxf1.net/en/2018-f1-power-unit-elements-usage/

zac510
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:51 pm

Yes but we need to include non-PU failures too, like hydraulics/brake/suspension and so forth that interrupted running in the session.

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Tag Heuer (Renault)

Post Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:54 am

Sieper wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:36 pm
Come on Waiku, if you are going to post a one sentence post just slagging someone. How is that beneficial to anybody. Just put some arguments in there and perhaps keep a more neutral tone and I am sure we will learn something from your viewpoint and at the very least you won't get minused.
Yeah perhaps I should have added why. Christian and Red Bull have been bashing Renault for such a long time and now decides to praise them for a great job, I mean seriously... next race it will be probably be disastrous again and then what?