2019 Renault F1 Team

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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:Cyril Abiteboul says:
We've seen that we are just as quick if not quicker than McLaren when not held back, but obviously McLaren was so much faster in qualifying, and that's what matters the most in current F1.

Having said that we are not miles away, and we were much faster than them in Montreal. What I expect is to see an interesting battle with McLaren for the remainder of the season. They are ahead, only the points matter, only the Sunday result matters. We put ourselves (behind) after qualifying, looking at the qualifying, but looking at the race, it's much more on par.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... l/4482666/

Wow! As fast as McLaren! ;) That wasn't exactly Renault's original 2019 goal was it!?

To be fair, the potential of the upgrade package has not yet been unlocked. =D> However the notion of challenging Red Bull and Ferrari seems far away. :(
To be honest, that’s always a moving target since you don’t really know who will make a jump or have better upgrades through the season.


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JordanMugen
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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:06 pm
To be honest, that’s always a moving target since you don’t really know who will make a jump or have better upgrades through the season.
True! =D>

Unfortunately, however it seems the Renault aero instability is still not fixed. :wtf: #-o

Nico Hulkenberg says:
One of the biggest issues is that the aero balance changes in long bends, depending on how hard the wheels are turned, how hard the car rolls, or how strong the front dives.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/

What use is adding downforce to the car with updates, if that downforce is not available consistently but rather varies unpredictably depending on how far the front wheels are turned and how much bodyroll the car has. :wtf:

Renault really must solve their downforce instability issue if they want to progress up the field IMO. Otherwise whatever aero development they do is just a facade -- an improved downforce number which looks good in the wind tunnel and engineering meetings, but which is not actually available to the driver in a long sweeping 160 mph corner...

Hulkenberg praised the consistent balance of the McLaren:
You see right away: This car likes this track. The balance of the car from corner entry to corner exit is better than ours. This is important for the long corners here in Paul Ricard. The drivers have confidence in the rear of their car.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/

Facade in the sense that whatever aero "improvements" Renault make without fixing the instability, are just like plastering over the problem instead of fixing it from the ground up.

You could say the Renault RS19 is a bit like Windows 10, a spruced up version of Windows 8 (RS18), itself a spruced up version of Windows 7 (RS17), XP and originally NT -- you don't have to dig hard in Windows 10 to find old Windows NT control panel menus and Windows NT system applications underneath the shiny new exterior. Meanwhile McLaren MCL34 is like Mac OS X V1: McLaren like Apple were happy to drop the legacy Macintosh system (MCL33) and make a whole new system based on FreeBSD and NeXT that did away with the flaws of the old Macintosh from the foundations up. Ironically Renault are sponsored by Microsoft -- you may draw your own conclusions from that. :wink:

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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The problems with changes in car behavior during cornering could also be related to their differential settings more than just aero load through the corner.


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Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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And Renault is nowhere again. As expected, 1 bird doesn't make summer.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Mclarensenna
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:40 am
And Renault is nowhere again. As expected, 1 bird doesn't make summer.
You are definately correct!
Mclaren in qualifying from last year improved by 0.866
Renault improved by only 0.045

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djos
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Dan not at all happy with the car this weekend.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/06/30/ri ... -with-car/
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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KitS wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:41 am
Well, I have watching long enough to have seen Jim Clark race and I think it’s time for a major change. Nothing on Friday, three practice sessions on Saturday and two on Sunday. No qualifying. Grid spots by draw 1 hour before race. Like horses, a bad draw does not mean you can’t win and it would balance out over the season, good drivers should still float to the top. Make the cars narrower so three can fit beside each other on most tracks.
You're never gonna get the money from FP that you get from quali. Reducing F1 revenue would be a non starter for anybody who just bought it and has a huge mortgage on it.

There is nothing wrong with the format. I think they know exactly what's wrong....it's the difference in the amount of money that each team spends. The CAP should fix it. I'm not under any illusion they'll get it right the first time though.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:19 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:06 pm
To be honest, that’s always a moving target since you don’t really know who will make a jump or have better upgrades through the season.
True! =D>

Unfortunately, however it seems the Renault aero instability is still not fixed. :wtf: #-o

Nico Hulkenberg says:
One of the biggest issues is that the aero balance changes in long bends, depending on how hard the wheels are turned, how hard the car rolls, or how strong the front dives.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/

What use is adding downforce to the car with updates, if that downforce is not available consistently but rather varies unpredictably depending on how far the front wheels are turned and how much bodyroll the car has. :wtf:

Renault really must solve their downforce instability issue if they want to progress up the field IMO. Otherwise whatever aero development they do is just a facade -- an improved downforce number which looks good in the wind tunnel and engineering meetings, but which is not actually available to the driver in a long sweeping 160 mph corner...

Hulkenberg praised the consistent balance of the McLaren:
You see right away: This car likes this track. The balance of the car from corner entry to corner exit is better than ours. This is important for the long corners here in Paul Ricard. The drivers have confidence in the rear of their car.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/

Facade in the sense that whatever aero "improvements" Renault make without fixing the instability, are just like plastering over the problem instead of fixing it from the ground up.

You could say the Renault RS19 is a bit like Windows 10, a spruced up version of Windows 8 (RS18), itself a spruced up version of Windows 7 (RS17), XP and originally NT -- you don't have to dig hard in Windows 10 to find old Windows NT control panel menus and Windows NT system applications underneath the shiny new exterior. Meanwhile McLaren MCL34 is like Mac OS X V1: McLaren like Apple were happy to drop the legacy Macintosh system (MCL33) and make a whole new system based on FreeBSD and NeXT that did away with the flaws of the old Macintosh from the foundations up. Ironically Renault are sponsored by Microsoft -- you may draw your own conclusions from that. :wink:
Funny when I look at at mac os, I still see the same os which was developed at Bell Labs in 1969 by Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson. Not sure you can call that new. It really isn't much different than any other linux flavour. All be it isn't a linux. It's a unix with a slight different open source license to linux.

carisi2k
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:19 pm

You could say the Renault RS19 is a bit like Windows 10, a spruced up version of Windows 8 (RS18), itself a spruced up version of Windows 7 (RS17), XP and originally NT -- you don't have to dig hard in Windows 10 to find old Windows NT control panel menus and Windows NT system applications underneath the shiny new exterior. Meanwhile McLaren MCL34 is like Mac OS X V1: McLaren like Apple were happy to drop the legacy Macintosh system (MCL33) and make a whole new system based on FreeBSD and NeXT that did away with the flaws of the old Macintosh from the foundations up. Ironically Renault are sponsored by Microsoft -- you may draw your own conclusions from that. :wink:
While I agree that the RS19 is just another ugly duck version of RS1#. On the computer analogy you have no idea.

The RS17 was nowhere near as good a starting point as windows 7 for a start and really you should be looking at windows 95, 98 and ME for your analogy. Win95/rs17 was OK, win98/rs18 was better and winme/RS19 is broken.

I was going to do a whole history thing in which I explained to you how broken you explaination of the mac osx / windows nt thing is but it was getting way too long and would have been way off topic. so I will leave that for my conclusion for now.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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I apologise about any inaccuracies in my computer OS analogy. Sorry. :oops:
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:40 am
And Renault is nowhere again. As expected, 1 bird doesn't make summer.
Maybe only because it was too hot? :wink:

Performances are very tyre sensitive. I'm not sure that Red Bull, Ferrari etc will be so fast when the track temperature is cooler. #-o

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:24 pm
I apologise about any inaccuracies in my computer OS analogy. Sorry. :oops:
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:40 am
And Renault is nowhere again. As expected, 1 bird doesn't make summer.
Maybe only because it was too hot? :wink:

Performances are very tyre sensitive. I'm not sure that Red Bull, Ferrari etc will be so fast when the track temperature is cooler. #-o
Merc had PU temp issues. They couldn't use full power. That or they're lieing and it's a problem with their spec 2.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:34 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:24 pm
I apologise about any inaccuracies in my computer OS analogy. Sorry. :oops:
Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:40 am
And Renault is nowhere again. As expected, 1 bird doesn't make summer.
Maybe only because it was too hot? :wink:

Performances are very tyre sensitive. I'm not sure that Red Bull, Ferrari etc will be so fast when the track temperature is cooler. #-o
Merc had PU temp issues. They couldn't use full power. That or they're lieing and it's a problem with their spec 2.
You could be on to something there, their spec 2 has had more issues than it predecessor.... anyway, don’t want to go off topic.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 pm
You could be on to something there, their spec 2 has had more issues than it predecessor.... anyway, don’t want to go off topic.
Anyhow, what were the reasons why Renault were so slow in Austria? :?:

If not tyres, than aero issues, chassis balance, all of the above...?

The RS19 certainly does not have the level of relative performance that is expected of it. :cry: Not only is it far from Red Bull (Renault's traditional benchmark), it is also far from McLaren -- Renault's remaining benchmark in 2019.

Hulk mentioned the inconsistent balance in long corners at France -- that is unacceptable and needs to be fixed. The Renault car has high rake and steep elements at outer front wing -- one presumes this results in the unstable levels of rear downforce.

Would Renault be better off to adopt lower rake and McLaren-style front wing, and shift their overall car to an aero platform that (like McLaren) is less sensitive to pitch and roll, regardless if peak downforce numbers are much less?

Ground Effect
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:40 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 pm
You could be on to something there, their spec 2 has had more issues than it predecessor.... anyway, don’t want to go off topic.
Anyhow, what were the reasons why Renault were so slow in Austria? :?:

If not tyres, than aero issues, chassis balance, all of the above...?

The RS19 certainly does not have the level of relative performance that is expected of it. :cry: Not only is it far from Red Bull (Renault's traditional benchmark), it is also far from McLaren -- Renault's remaining benchmark in 2019.

Hulk mentioned the inconsistent balance in long corners at France -- that is unacceptable and needs to be fixed. The Renault car has high rake and steep elements at outer front wing -- one presumes this results in the unstable levels of rear downforce.

Would Renault be better off to adopt lower rake and McLaren-style front wing, and shift their overall car to an aero platform that (like McLaren) is less sensitive to pitch and roll, regardless if peak downforce numbers are much less?
I think Renault are in a bit of no man’s land at the moment. But if you look down the grid, Racing Point are in a worse situation, and it’s not for lack of updates. They had a big one in Australia and another in Barcelona, is it the tyres? Well, it was reported that Renault were not among the teams who flat out wanted a change back to 2018 tyres. They were said to be against going back, but could be convinced. But they could perform better in cooler conditions, like China.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

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Jambier
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Re: 2019 Renault F1 Team

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Sad to see how poor the chassis is.

Specialy than now their engine is really good