izzy wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:18 pm
Mclarensenna wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:54 pm
yes team managers say positive things. Look at Ross Brawn who set up mercedes to be the monster team they are now back in 2010-2013. he never stated he can win with 1/3 the budget. He told Mercedes they needed to invest big and updated the facilities etc to be able to win. Merc had the highest budget to win.
Newey was brought in by Redbull from Mclaren to win. He told them what facilcities and staff levels and budget were needed. Along with Horner and Marko they all told Dietrich what it took to win. Dietrich agreed to there plan and Redbull spent more than any other team in 2010 to win their first title. It was a realstic plan and it worked. Same as Mercs realisitic plan. Both teams showed incredible management to get to where they were dominating.
None of the F1 managers decided the budget like Cyril you are correct. F1 Managers like Horner and Newey and Marko go to Dietrich matesitcz and tell him this is what budget we need to win. We cannot win with less. That is what smart realistic managers do and it worked on both occassions as both these teams dominated the last 10 years.
Not once did Redbull or Mercedes say we can do more with much less and win.
Cyril actually has said on many many occasions he can do more with less. So obviously the Renault board believes him along with all his other failed targets. Cyril has missed all his own targets every year he has been at Renault going back to the massive arguments in 2015.
afaik when Ross sold his £1 team to Mercedes they were trying to do it with the £50m cost cap FIA were planning? then it took ages to get the Board to spend more, with Niki having to go and persuade them to spend on Lewis even. And we don't really know what Cyril and his Board have said to each other do we. Cyril has kept them in the sport, when they might have been saying like "Cyril, mon ami, do within €100m or we're pulling ze plug" or whatever and so he's hastily saying "Bien sur!! I can do it within €100m aucun probleme!!"
i mean Cyril deserves some credit imo, that Renault are still here, spending big on redoing the Lotus factory, the infrastructure and drivers, as he's the main man the Board are backing, that's more or less all we know. Personally i'm pretty sure he's not strolling into the Board meetings saying "Money? No i don't especially need any more, thanks all the same"
"Personally i'm pretty sure he's not strolling into the Board meetings saying "Money? No i don't especially need any more, thanks all the same"
<--------- This is exactly my point. It sounds so crazy to say this and even think this in F1 as we all know you need money to compete it is common sense. But Cyril is the only manager i have heard going back to 2015 saying over and over and over again in every single interview we can do more with less and we are very efficient etc etc. He had got into a huge argument with Redbull at the time.
Redbull kept saying you need to spend more you cannot compete with Merc and Ferrari with 1/3 he budget and Cyril was not just saying this but arguing over and over again he can do more with less. It is not just 1 time he said it in passing to say yep he said it for the cameras. It was argument after argument about the low budget
Redbull from 2014 begged renault to increase budget to the point they said they would pay for Ilmor to help. Cyril refused over and over again. Again a huge argument unfolded. Cyril in 2015 claimed updates are coming we will catch the leaders with our tiny budget do not worry by the end of the year. Then if you remember in Brazil they brought an updated engine for Ricciardo only not Kyvatt.
Well Ric said this update was actually slower, so did did Redbull and the engineers and all the data.
Cyril got into a massive public argument all caught on camera arguing the engine is definately better and faster and was furious.
It was so unprofessional and still refusing to increase budget or accept the extra help of Ilmor.
Well low and behold the following year Cyril finally admitted he was lying and the engine was actually slower.
So he got into all these extremely unprofessional public arguments for no reason. Not my opinion no of a top manager losing his cool constantly in public.
Then after that huge argument with Redbull late 2015 finally Cyril agreed to outside help from Redbull after Cyril realised none of his in-house updates were working. And low and behold Renault had the most reliable engine in 2016 (hybrid era from 14-19) and had the biggest jump in power. 50 horsepower race 1, 35 horsepower Monaco, 15 more horsepower in Singapore.
Bullet proof reliability. All thanks to Ilmor. Then at the end of 16 Cyril said we do not need Ilmor we can do alot better and have a better faster reliable engine coming of our own design bla bla bla. Again Horner and Co were not happy but Cyril stubbornly made the wrong decision again. Then 2017 came and they fell back again and unreliability was back after he claimed he will close the gap to the leaders. Instead the gap was growing again not shrinking like 16 and unreliability was very very bad. 2018 Cyril again claimed he would catch the leaders but as the season went on the gap increased again. All the while claiming all throughout the year they are working on being very efficient and doing more with less budget.
Then 2019 was supposed to be a very reliable engine closing the gap to the leaders yet we saw how much unreliability even Mclaren had and we saw the result they announced they are moving to Mercedes leaving Cyril with no customers.
Everybody is sick of Cyrils failed promises year after year since 2014 including now losing both Redbull and Mclaren.
So no based on this tiny tiny sample of the 100s of things i could say about Cyril, he should have been replaced years ago after the multiple failures and multiple missed targets year after year especially.