2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:52 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
3% of ~1000bhp is ~30bhp... which is what Red Bull were claiming Renault were off Mercedes isn't it? :lol:
I heard as much as 100hp at times, which is probably the same for Honda, at times. ERS exploitation is an expensive lunch, and having a very efficient combustion process is the only way to trim the bill so you can afford it, so to speak.
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
Don't they need to know what others will come up with before claiming such thing?

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:46 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
For contextual purposes, what does this source say that the current percental deficit is?
Greater than 3% over race distance.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:46 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
Don't they need to know what others will come up with before claiming such thing?
Yeah exactly!

"We will be withing 3% of Mercedes and Ferrari......"

So they know exactly what power Ferrari and Mercedes will have in 2019 to make this bold statement.... or they are just talking nonsense!
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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:35 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:46 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
Don't they need to know what others will come up with before claiming such thing?
Yeah exactly!

"We will be withing 3% of Mercedes and Ferrari......"

So they know exactly what power Ferrari and Mercedes will have in 2019 to make this bold statement.... or they are just talking nonsense!
When they said this , it comes from data they get from tracking rivals from gps etc , rivals development rate at recent years and rivals estimated development for this year. then compare it with what they will have at second half of the season (also at the start of the season ). This also estimated gain from their development plan, it could be failed or will be achieved better?
So it makes sense. They calculated a number for rivals , put a target for themself to reach , after that this statement according to that. If they achieve their plan but rivals do better than calculated according to data there is nothing wrong with it. It is always better than targetless working to have a realistic target.
Last edited by etusch on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Furthermore to be within 3%(as in 3% deficit is worst case scenario) over a full race distance at a track like Baku or Shanghai or Silverstone would be huge for Honda.


I wonder how much the working relationship between Honda and Red Bull is helping them on their development path? That perhaps the sense of commitment coming from the Red Bull organization, makes it easier for Honda to use the resources necessary to make the gains that are necessary to win. Now Honda is working directly with the petrochemical supplier, full works support from the turbo manufacturer, willingness to hire outside top talent. Red Bull, invests a lot into it's F1 team and they've consistently had one of the best chassis on the grid for the last 8 years, they're a known quantity. Again emphasizing that both parties are showing maximum commitment to the goal may create a better environment for success.
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lio007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
I really hope this expectations come true.
Any informations about the start of the season? Is there already an improvement over the winter?

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lio007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Really nice to see the Honda-logo in their Sponsor/Partners list:
Image

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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:50 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:35 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:46 pm


Don't they need to know what others will come up with before claiming such thing?
Yeah exactly!

"We will be withing 3% of Mercedes and Ferrari......"

So they know exactly what power Ferrari and Mercedes will have in 2019 to make this bold statement.... or they are just talking nonsense!
When they said this , it comes from data they get from tracking rivals from gps etc , rivals development rate at recent years and rivals estimated development for this year. then compare it with what they will have at second half of the season (also at the start of the season ). This also estimated gain from their development plan, it could be failed or will be achieved better?
So it makes sense. They calculated a number for rivals , put a target for themself to reach , after that this statement according to that. If they achieve their plan but rivals do better than calculated according to data there is nothing wrong with it. It is always better than targetless working to have a realistic target.
I hope they don't end up like this...
Link -> Renault underestimated rivals' engine development
Aug 13, 2018 wrote:Abiteboul told Motorsport.com that Ferrari's progress has made it clear that Renault needs to be more aggressive with its engine development.

"I believe indeed that we underestimated the potential of the current engine regulations, let's put it this way," he said.

"We are now four years into this engine regulation and after four years you would expect that you would see the flattening out of the development curve.

"[We] sort of saw that from Mercedes. Without opening up a different debate, we have been amazed by Ferrari's very recent improvement, which shows it's possible.
The biggest question is, Will they be within 3% on reliability also? Generally, Mercedes and Ferrari manage the 2 winter tests with one PU. That is around 5k KMs (around 1k laps of 5kms long barcelona circuit), which is what a 6 to 7 race weekends is. If Honda doesn't manage that, then there is work cut out.

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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:40 am
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 pm
I'm hearing the Honda engine should be on par(within 3%) with the others by the second half of 2019 if everything goes according to plan.
I really hope this expectations come true.
Any informations about the start of the season? Is there already an improvement over the winter?
After Honda introduced the 3rd spec Marko said the next version was already on the dyno and will bring a similar improvement that the spec 3 brought. So winter's development should see a nice improvement, Blick.ch said the spec 3 had a 54 HP increase.

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etusch
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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GPR -A wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:15 am
....
I know Renault's statement and I was very hopefull to see them succed that. Out of pity result is obvious.
I read that they are planning to finish season with 3 engines. So they have confidence about it. They were good at reliability last season. This time they have good base on both for power and reliability. So one step forward on reliability side and one step forward on power side (I read Redbull was talking about an update that will come to winter after spec 3 ) it will be good start to season.
But I would like to see them more engine with more power.
I think they will keep same aproach for testing this year with last year. A new and slightly different engines for each test day of first one. At second test one engine..

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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GPR -A wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:15 am
The biggest question is, Will they be within 3% on reliability also? Generally, Mercedes and Ferrari manage the 2 winter tests with one PU. That is around 5k KMs (around 1k laps of 5kms long barcelona circuit), which is what a 6 to 7 race weekends is.
If Honda doesn't manage that, then there is work cut out.
That does not have to be that way. Honda used two different engines last year. A conservative and a faster one.
They then looked at with which spec they could best go to Australia. So an engine change does not mean everything.
The Power of Honda!

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Marti_EF3
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Hey there! I hope the Honda engine will work well with the RBR package, and there won't be any refrigeration issues...

P. D: I'll be on both test weeks at Barcelona doing a livestream on YouTube for you. At the afternoons after work :mrgreen:

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lio007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:45 pm
Hey there! I hope the Honda engine will work well with the RBR package, and there won't be any refrigeration issues...

P. D: I'll be on both test weeks at Barcelona doing a livestream on YouTube for you. At the afternoons after work :mrgreen:
Great, really looking forward to your livestreams!

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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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As long as the Honda engine is at least matching Renault by Melbourne then RBR will be happy.