2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

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erudite450
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by erudite450 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:52 pm

I understand what you are saying and the right thing would be to let them race but the team would surely prioritise race victory over driver emotion. Anyway, whatever happens it could be a great race.

Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Big Tea » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:07 pm

erudite450 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:52 pm
I understand what you are saying and the right thing would be to let them race but the team would surely prioritise race victory over driver emotion. Anyway, whatever happens it could be a great race.
They may well see it as being a team advantage to let Bottas win. Hamilton is not likely to get caught by a non Merc driver this year, but Bottas only has a 40 point buffer. If Ferrari or RBR seem to be turning the corner, it could make the difference of having a Merc 1-2 at the end of the season. as for the race, a 1-2 is the same in either order.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

erudite450
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by erudite450 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:36 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:07 pm
erudite450 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:52 pm
I understand what you are saying and the right thing would be to let them race but the team would surely prioritise race victory over driver emotion. Anyway, whatever happens it could be a great race.
They may well see it as being a team advantage to let Bottas win. Hamilton is not likely to get caught by a non Merc driver this year, but Bottas only has a 40 point buffer. If Ferrari or RBR seem to be turning the corner, it could make the difference of having a Merc 1-2 at the end of the season. as for the race, a 1-2 is the same in either order.
I don't think you understand my point. If Bottas gets a great start and leads after the first lap with Hamilton P2, of course they'd let them race like always. I am only wondering what would happen in the event that they are P3 and P4 or P2 and P3 with Hamilton behind seemingly faster and able to match the leading pace. They tend to prioritise race victory- for instance, Monaco 2016, Hungary 2017.

Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Big Tea » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:31 pm

erudite450 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:36 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:07 pm
erudite450 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:52 pm
I understand what you are saying and the right thing would be to let them race but the team would surely prioritise race victory over driver emotion. Anyway, whatever happens it could be a great race.
They may well see it as being a team advantage to let Bottas win. Hamilton is not likely to get caught by a non Merc driver this year, but Bottas only has a 40 point buffer. If Ferrari or RBR seem to be turning the corner, it could make the difference of having a Merc 1-2 at the end of the season. as for the race, a 1-2 is the same in either order.
I don't think you understand my point. If Bottas gets a great start and leads after the first lap with Hamilton P2, of course they'd let them race like always. I am only wondering what would happen in the event that they are P3 and P4 or P2 and P3 with Hamilton behind seemingly faster and able to match the leading pace. They tend to prioritise race victory- for instance, Monaco 2016, Hungary 2017.
I do not think they would be averse to asking either driver to pass or let according to which fits the teams needs.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Just_a_fan » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:28 pm

If Hamilton is behind Bottas and quicker, they'd probably do what they did in Hungary - let Hamilton by Bottas on the understanding he gives the place back if he can't get by the driver/drivers ahead.
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digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by digitalrurouni » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:45 am

I really hope they don't implement tram orders. There's absolutely no need.

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by GPR -A » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:55 am

digitalrurouni wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:45 am
I really hope they don't implement tram orders. There's absolutely no need.
Winning a race is more important than the sensibilities and emotions of drivers. If they are 1 and 2, it's different case, but if the slower driver is holding back the faster driver and another team is running away with the race, then issuing team order is the right thing to do, so that the faster driver is released to have a go for the win.

As a team, you don't compete to entertain the ego and emotions of your drivers. The ultimate motive for a team is to win races and to that extent, drivers are just employees who have to serve the best interests of the team.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:51 pm


erudite450
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by erudite450 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:13 pm

How could Paul Di Resta with access to all the radio traffic still get it spectacularly wrong on the Mercedes issues. Even I sat at home knew, it couldn't have been tyres that they were struggling with.

Morteza
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Morteza » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:25 pm

Is it because of the Spec 2 engine though? Did they have such cooling problems with Spec 1 or the races were not as hot/high as Austria?
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:29 pm

Morteza wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:25 pm
Is it because of the Spec 2 engine though? Did they have such cooling problems with Spec 1 or the races were not as hot/high as Austria?
Yeah it’s a result of the packaging choices this year, irrespective of the Spec.

They’ve made steps in improving the cooling but the altitude in Austria, combined with the extraordinarily high temperatures, was just too much for the platform.

Some reports have Merc losing up to 7 tenths of a sec/lap this weekend due to not being able to run higher PU modes and due to the aero performance loss caused by opened up bodywork.

Morteza
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Morteza » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:33 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:29 pm
Morteza wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:25 pm
Is it because of the Spec 2 engine though? Did they have such cooling problems with Spec 1 or the races were not as hot/high as Austria?
Yeah it’s a result of the packaging choices this year, irrespective of the Spec.

They’ve made steps in improving the cooling but the altitude in Austria, combined with the extraordinarily high temperatures, was just too much for the platform.

Some reports have Merc losing up to 7 tenths of a sec/lap this weekend due to not being able to run higher PU modes and due to the aero performance loss caused by opened up bodywork.
Thank you for the explanation.
7 tenths? Wow, that's a lot. They were worse than both RB and Ferrari in the race, which was obvious something isn't right hence Toto's comments about the temperature and cooling issues they had.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:45 pm

Morteza wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:33 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:29 pm
Morteza wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:25 pm

Is it because of the Spec 2 engine though? Did they have such cooling problems with Spec 1 or the races were not as hot/high as Austria?
Yeah it’s a result of the packaging choices this year, irrespective of the Spec.

They’ve made steps in improving the cooling but the altitude in Austria, combined with the extraordinarily high temperatures, was just too much for the platform.

Some reports have Merc losing up to 7 tenths of a sec/lap this weekend due to not being able to run higher PU modes and due to the aero performance loss caused by opened up bodywork.
Thank you for the explanation.
7 tenths? Wow, that's a lot. They were worse than both RB and Ferrari in the race, which was obvious something isn't right hence Toto's comments about the temperature and cooling issues they had.
You are very welcome. Yes it is a lot. In terms of breaking down where the time was lost, the extreme cooling bodywork alone was about 5 tenths, and the lower PU modes resulted in a loss of about 2 tenths.

Things ended up being worse than expected, and then things got doubly worse when Mercedes were outqualified to such an extent that both of their cars had to be in traffic/dirty air, which just exacerbates cooling problems even more.

MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by MtthsMlw » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:58 pm

I listened to the team radios and the amout of lift and coast was immense. They truly were in a lot of trouble this race.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:17 pm

MtthsMlw wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:58 pm
I listened to the team radios and the amout of lift and coast was immense. They truly were in a lot of trouble this race.
In FP3, during the slightly cooler temperatures, I thought Mercedes was absolutely neck-and-neck with Ferrari and qualifying was going to come down to a few hundredths of a second. However, once the temperatures started ramping up later in the day, the first evidence of Merc's pace continuing to drop off came in Q1.

If they don't get their cooling issues sorted out, they are going to be in a little bit of trouble during the summer European races (if the heat wave persists). Of course, it's also important to remember that the altitude also played a substantial role as well.

The problem is essentially threefold: 1) Opening up the bodywork negates half a second worth of their aerodynamic performance relative to the other top teams; 2) When they have to open up the bodywork that much, they usually have to skip out on the highest PU settings for both qualifying and the race; 3) As a result of issues 1 and 2, they run the risk of qualifying off of the front row, which puts them in dirty air during the race, eliminating their ability to control the race pace in clean air, further exacerbating the cooling issues and negating the car's inherent race pace and ability to look after the tires.