2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Bill
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Bill » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:10 pm

Facts Ferrari has an o.8 to 1 second advantage over Honda and Mercedes in straights now it has been reduced to 0.3 tenth those are you facts or you just think they felt generous in Mexico and the us,put 0.6 in the shelf let the competition keep up.something don't need to be said you just look at reality and connect the dots for your self.if Ferrari did not lose any advantage why sudden anger from Binotto apparently he had an altercation with Horner.

Is not the 1st time Ferrari were accused of doing untoward things & they were pretty arrogant about it and goading the teams to protect, and they did seem they don't like the result they thought the genius

turbof1
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:11 pm

Oh dear, I think it is time for some autumn cleaning here. Time to clean out the Maxies, the Hamies and whateveries. And to pull some naughty people on their ears. Looking forward particular to that, just screaming:



For now:

CLOOOSEEEEE THE DOOORSSSS
#AeroFrodo

turbof1
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:41 pm

Shiny clean again people! Please keep your manners and put off your shoes when entering the floor.
Bill wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:10 pm
Facts Ferrari has an o.8 to 1 second advantage over Honda and Mercedes in straights now it has been reduced to 0.3 tenth those are you facts or you just think they felt generous in Mexico and the us,put 0.6 in the shelf let the competition keep up.something don't need to be said you just look at reality and connect the dots for your self.if Ferrari did not lose any advantage why sudden anger from Binotto apparently he had an altercation with Horner.

Is not the 1st time Ferrari were accused of doing untoward things & they were pretty arrogant about it and goading the teams to protect, and they did seem they don't like the result they thought the genius
There are frankly some fallacies in that:
-The advantage on a straight depends on your aero profile and also how long the straight is. People taking these numbers -both time advantage and speed advantage- as absolute, have to realize that is not necessarily a correct indicator.

-Let us leave out emotional reactions out of this. If Horner is to punch a random guy on the street tomorrow, is that an indication Ferrari still has their advantage?

-Even if Ferrari was actually hampered by the clarification, there is still a difference between "having a grey area closed off and not being able to use it anymore" and "outright cheating". Did Mercedes for instance cheat when they used FRIC? Because they had to stop using it in the same way Ferrari did: through a technical directive.

I am not defending or offending Ferrari here. You do have to realize a lot of it is still speculation. Yes, connecting the dots isn't unreasonable, but given basically nothing is confirmed I'd do that under provision and certainly with some restraints towards accusations of outright cheating.
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Bill
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Bill » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:08 pm

Fine let wait and see the truth will eventually come out

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by GPR -A » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Bill wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:08 pm
Fine let wait and see the truth will eventually come out
Fantasies doesn't turn out to be truth and will never come out if you are waiting for a whistle blower to come out and talk about what Ferrari has been doing with their PU, that is not going to happen. Whatever competitors, media and fans can speculate, that is what is going to live in the public domain.

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by marvin78 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:40 pm

Bill wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:08 pm
Fine let wait and see the truth will eventually come out
If the truth that comes out is that Ferraris performance has nothing to do with the FIA clarification, would you believe it or would you think that everyone lies about it? So...that's pointless.

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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by turbof1 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:42 pm

Can we please move on? I adressed the issue in a correct manner; the honorable member gave a more open minded answer. As far as I can tell it's not payback hour, so for good sake let's move on!
#AeroFrodo

GPR -A
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by GPR -A » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:01 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:40 pm
Bill wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:08 pm
Fine let wait and see the truth will eventually come out
If the truth that comes out is that Ferraris performance has nothing to do with the FIA clarification, would you believe it or would you think that everyone lies about it? So...that's pointless.
Ferrari's performance drop could be because they de-tuned the engine in US because they had a failure with Leclerc. It could be because they couldn't find the right setup. It could also be because Vettel said, he was conservative on his first Q3 run and for second run, the track wasn't at it's best and no one could improve. There could be various technical variables for why Ferrari couldn't show their performance.

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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:57 pm

Their advantage is still there, COTA just didn't suit the Ferrari in race trim. Too many corners with too much tire wear, same with Mexico. Getting the tires in the window is worth a lot of time, and if you can't get that window in the race you will struggle massively.

Again I fully expect them to be competitive in the next two races because of how power sensitive they are.
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subcritical71
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by subcritical71 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:25 pm

I have a question about the comment that more DF was piled on. I don't understand why the Ferrari subsequently snow plowed around COTA, something I hadn't seen before at other tracks. Were they having difficulty getting their tires up to temperature?

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by godlameroso » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:34 pm

subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:25 pm
I have a question about the comment that more DF was piled on. I don't understand why the Ferrari subsequently snow plowed around COTA, something I hadn't seen before at other tracks. Were they having difficulty getting their tires up to temperature?
Probably, the idea behind piling on the downforce was for the race, due to the fact that tire wear is easier to manage. Perhaps the balance changed and one of the axles went out of the window due to the fact, this could explain the lack of pace. The added downforce may have contributed to lower straight line advantage, the track changed drastically from Friday to Sunday, as well as the wind, so the Saturday setup may have worked different than the Sunday setup.

Brazil has a pair of full throttle sections, and the uphill acceleration makes the track a bit power sensitive. It also has a decent mix of corners, some slow mostly mid speed, and one long high speed corner.

If I were a betting man, I'd say Ferrari will be competitive in Brazil in sectors 1 & 3, but struggle in sector 2. If Ferrari gains .5 on the straights, and lose .4 in the corners they'll stay ahead. Their advantage in COTA was only .3 in the straights just like last year, therefore I expect a slightly higher gap on the straights due to the longer full throttle percentage of the lap.

Last year Ferrari was quite competitive in Brazil, however Vettel was unlucky. I expect they'll be competitive again.
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Phil » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:54 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:57 pm
Their advantage is still there, COTA just didn't suit the Ferrari in race trim. Too many corners with too much tire wear, same with Mexico. Getting the tires in the window is worth a lot of time, and if you can't get that window in the race you will struggle massively.
I am not going to argue if Ferrari lost their advantage - but the “advantage” being discussed was always confined to

1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed

2.) on the straights, not corners

3.) very limited area and duration, usually qualifying, but also at race starts and restarts

None of the above is particularly linked to their cornerIng performance nor their race performance. Their advantage went beyond it being explainable by simply “having a less draggy car”.

Yes drag has an impact on top speed, but the teams who have been trying to figure out Ferraris secret have enough data to know that it can not be explained by that. Hence the focus on the acceleration period and not top speed.

In other words: the Ferrari has shown this advantage for quite a few races, even on tracks that weren’t supposed to suit them. So i dont see the conclusion that ”CotA simply didnt suit them”. Their advantage in those limited areas transcended the characteristics of their car on a less ideal track.

It is to remain seen if Brazil will show a different picture or if that gain is suddenly absent.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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LM10
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by LM10 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:02 pm

Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:54 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:57 pm
Their advantage is still there, COTA just didn't suit the Ferrari in race trim. Too many corners with too much tire wear, same with Mexico. Getting the tires in the window is worth a lot of time, and if you can't get that window in the race you will struggle massively.
I am not going to argue if Ferrari lost their advantage - but the “advantage” being discussed was always confined to

1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed

2.) on the straights, not corners

3.) very limited area and duration, usually qualifying, but also at race starts and restarts

None of the above is particularly linked to their cornerIng performance nor their race performance. Their advantage went beyond it being explainable by simply “having a less draggy car”.

Yes drag has an impact on top speed, but the teams who have been trying to figure out Ferraris secret have enough data to know that it can not be explained by that. Hence the focus on the acceleration period and not top speed.

In other words: the Ferrari has shown this advantage for quite a few races, even on tracks that weren’t supposed to suit them. So i dont see the conclusion that ”CotA simply didnt suit them”. Their advantage in those limited areas transcended the characteristics of their car on a less ideal track.

It is to remain seen if Brazil will show a different picture or if that gain is suddenly absent.
The gain was still there. I don't understand why people keep on claiming that it disappeared. Ferrari still was the best accdelerating car out there.
Vettel was faster on every part of the straights compared to Bottas based on minisectors and in addition to that he was faster in a few corners as well. Ferrari definitely had the potential to get pole in Austin, especially in the hands of Leclerc. Vettel told that he was having a bit of a conservative first lap in Q3 and the second lap was bad for almost everyone. Leclerc seemed to be the faster driver, but he had the disadvantage of a lost FP3 session and a tired spec 2 PU.

Phil
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Phil » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:23 pm

...because RedBull and their data seem to think so? They are the ones with all the data after all. I’m purely basing this off their suggestion that Ferrari has lost something.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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LM10
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by LM10 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:30 pm

Phil wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:23 pm
...because RedBull and their data seem to think so? They are the ones with all the data after all. I’m purely basing this off their suggestion that Ferrari has lost something.
How do you know what their data says? The only person opening his mouth on this matter was that kid Max and he didn’t do it based on any data.