[ 2020 ] Scuderia Ferrari - Ferrari

[ScrewCaptain27]

They were not even running that much less wing from what I could see. I do not believe the engine is as disastrous as most people think it is.
Another thing I noticed during the race is that Leclerc seemed to lose a lot of time at the end of Sector 3, and regained it in Sector 1 which is still mostly full-throttle. Again it looks like he is just running out of battery, like I said last month...

What race have you seen?
Maybe is better to start questioning how it is possible for Mercedes to keep going more than 1 second faster than all the others with an often hidden behind high downforce configuration engine advantage since 2014.

Using the gap to Sainz behind as a reference. He was losing roughly 3 tenths at the end of the lap and regaining them immediately in Sector 1.

[Xwang]

For sure since he (Leclerc) was running a rear wing almost in Spa configuration and in any case you are comparing with the McLaren which has what is now reported to be the second less powerful engine in F1. Maybe FIA inspectors could go and check the Ferrari engine again so that to have an excuse for not doing the same with the Mercedes one ("Sorry, we would like to check Mercedes engine, but we are too busy in checking and understanding the Ferrari one which, running a low downforce configuration, is able to gain 0.3 seconds on Sainz").

[PlatinumZealot]

Less wing.

Yeah I think so too but it’s still remarkable the high speed corners are about on par with RB.
Could it be Ferrari did regain quite some cavalli since Austria/winter testing ? Silverstone is power hungry with 70% full throttle.

The apex speed might be similar but he could have a different line or more sliding. Sometimes the balance is a bit different too. I notice that Max has bettter acceleration out of corners into the mext but Charles catches up on the straights. Overall it seems the Ferrari has some amount of aero efficiency on the body itself.

[LM10]

Binotto:

If you look back in the past, if you look at the history of F1, each time there was a winning circle for some teams, it was always when there was a big regulation change. It has been the case for us, Red Bull and Mercedes. 2022 is a big important opportunity for us.

That doesn't mean that from now to 2022 we won’t challenge our rivals, we try to do our best, try to progress our car but we are aware that the gap is significant and this time is very limited. Today we got a podium and there can be great races in the future.

He obviously and cautiously tries to tell that they will mainly focus on 2022. This is the way they need to go now and I'm glad Binotto looks at it from this perspective. I don't see any other more logical approach to the current situation.
He somehow prepares themselves and us to uncompetitive times ahead with the aim to come back stronger when new regulations get started.
Fans need to be patient and I hope they will be. Ferrari shouldn't let media or others disturb them or put pressure on them.


Binotto also confirmed that he no longer is a technical director:

We just changed our technical organization recently back in Maranello. We had to reorganize that. I am not doing the technical director role anymore. We need to have people that are fully responsible of the various areas. I think we got it.

There are many tasks managing an entire company, there is no time to do everything.

[etusch]

He obviously and cautiously tries to tell that they will mainly focus on 2022. This is the way they need to go now and I'm glad Binotto looks at it from this perspective. I don't see any other more logical approach to the current situation.
He somehow prepares themselves and us to uncompetitive times ahead with the aim to come back stronger when new regulations get started.

It is very bad that you work on a car for 2 years and when you start running at winter tests you see everything went wrong. I think there must be a few small correlation tests to allow teams to prove their affort and direction. Fia must allow teams to do their jobs good enough without wasting money and man work. Fia are trying to reduce spendings but if a team put limited amount of money and work on to wrong things, this is also a kind of wast.
Maybe 2 or 3 small test for 1 hour to gather data to prove their concept is working or not without any restriction.

[Just_a_fan]

For those who feel a bit sorry for Seb.

[Mr.G]

Cannot agree more,

On every platform of conversation, Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, here and on every forum, you find the same inane arguments. Devoid of all logic, devoid of reason, spat out by people whom have little to no experience with F1 and its history. I have lost hours arguing with such people, until i am now completely disgusted with such individuals. The Valtteri is second man arguments, the FIA loves Mercedes, Pirelli loves Mercedes, stewards love Mercedes, GOD loves Mercedes etc. Everything else is a conspiracy, everyone is secretly sabotaging every team, the FIA wants all teams to do bad appart from Mercedes.

It is appalling, and i am shocked fans are so self obsessed with their teams as to not see the utter incompetence displayed by Ferrari and RedBull for many years, some with nearly the same amount of money, some with more.

It's "Proportionality bias". Mercedes has had an amazing string of seasons and so there must be something amazing happening behind the scenes to let that happen. Because there is no way my favorite team would be this far behind for these number of seasons if Mercedes was playing fair. Then enters confirmation bias when Bottas doesn't get penalized for his start, or Lewis doesn't get penalized for x action.

It's the same concept on how people believe in a flat earth among other things.

Unfortunately, it is hard to get through to people who hold such beliefs. Any evidence you present will only make them dig deeper into their belief that there is some conspiracy to make Mercedes rule F1. If only people thought about the simplest reasons first, such as, maybe Ferrari simply got it wrong? Or maybe the mistakes made by Ferrari in 2017/18 cost them titles that would have been within their reach? Maybe Mercedes is simply operating at a higher level than everyone else on the grid at the moment?

What really grinds my gear is the constant, please neuter them, take the performance away, allow mediocrity to rule F1 again, ban this, ban that, ban Racing Point, ban DAS, change rules every 5 minutes so that the Maranello Disaster can cheat themselves again to pole positions. I wonder how Horner hasn’t popped a vein this week without protesting something.

F1 is dying, not because of Mercedes, because of Ferrari and the rest being unable to operate within acceptable parameters. Since we are on the Scuderia’s page.

2017 - equal car. Failed

2018 - better car. Failed.

2019- best engine ( however it was ) Failed.

Money spent - around 1.5 - 2 billion. Titles 0.

Still Mercs fault i assume.

Sorry for digging out old posts...

- If Mercedes is good it's always superior engineering if Ferrari is good must be cheating? Why?
- There is no lobbying/politis in F1?
- Don't restrict DAS, but don't restric other things too Ferrari and other teams would be able to beat Mercedes but how? You can not develop anything those days... The lobbyist in F1 created the model that suits them the best... One team is good in engines other in chassis another in aero, but those days all of those areas are so tightly regulated you can not create nothing new unless you are going on the edge with regulations. Just let the engineers fight too... Currently if you don't have mega factory you are doomed. Even if you have good idea, you are not able to manufacture and TEST it on track to deliver real results. Why we have fuel limit? I don't care how thirsty is the engine - thirstier engine = bigger fuel tank = higher weight = automatic penalty... If other team want to go the way with more fuel efficient engine, less weihth - OK do it, but why another team can not burn more fuel? Same with MGU-K/H why 120kW? Let the engineers develop 400kW MGU-K, of corse you need burn more fuel, carry more batteries, let the teams choose what's best for them... Now it is so tightly regulated that it will be better if all manufacturers have the same parts as they are spending millions fo 0.01s advantages...

[JPBD1990]

Agree with the above. I don’t get the fuel flow limit?

Can’t the FIA just make a rule that a car cannot carry more than XXXkg (105kg for example) of fuel? If one car uses 20% less than another, well done! That’s their advantage! I don’t understand the point of all these rules anymore

[Sombrero]

+ 4.88 kg for the Scuderia of course !

[Ringleheim]

Agree with the above. I don’t get the fuel flow limit?

Can’t the FIA just make a rule that a car cannot carry more than XXXkg (105kg for example) of fuel? If one car uses 20% less than another, well done! That’s their advantage! I don’t understand the point of all these rules anymore

The sport has never been more technical than right now and it suffers for it.

It's also why Mercedes has dominated for so long. IMO, only massive works teams with the resources of a Mercedes have a shot at winning with the regulations this technical and complicated.

I don't even think Ferrari can keep up.

If not Ferrari, who else? All the other constructors are pretty much gone.

Renault never seems to try, and Honda only makes engines.

BMW, Toyota, Ford, and so many others are long gone...

[etusch]

Agree with the above. I don’t get the fuel flow limit?

Can’t the FIA just make a rule that a car cannot carry more than XXXkg (105kg for example) of fuel? If one car uses 20% less than another, well done! That’s their advantage! I don’t understand the point of all these rules anymore

The sport has never been more technical than right now and it suffers for it.

It's also why Mercedes has dominated for so long. IMO, only massive works teams with the resources of a Mercedes have a shot at winning with the regulations this technical and complicated.

I don't even think Ferrari can keep up.

If not Ferrari, who else? All the other constructors are pretty much gone.

Renault never seems to try, and Honda only makes engines.

BMW, Toyota, Ford, and so many others are long gone...

Of course it is important to have good enough amount of money and human resource to be successful in the sport. But it is not only things to bring success. You can rule to benefit to some team and in the same time to stop other one. (for example; they could ban oil burning before having any question from any team, when they saw there is big advantage a team which has already fastest car. But even after the question they just interested how much oil you burn, not banned it fuly. When they allow oil burning these means if you didn't design your engine to do that then at least one year you lost. So they could allow teams who don't use oil burning, a bit more fuel to use.) Think that If rule would return the times when redbull dominating, mercedes resource will not put them on top, at least it won't be right away and they become a team who need to catch up redbull.
As I always said that fia doing everything wrong. They say they want to bring more manufacturers to the sport but I think it is just a lie. Because if they wanted to see more, then they would let Honda to develop it's engine token free and allow honda powered team to use more engine than 5, for example, 7 or 8 engine per season. They allow them to test their pu with an old F1 car to develop performance and reliability. If they give these kind of advantages for new comers ( because they will have many disadvantages because of late coming) other manufacturers could think about that. But in these conditions it is not a clever act to come.
Fia decided to bring less complicated front wings to the sport. But after seeing this not helped competition then they have to return more competitive rules. At least one year later, or they have to bring success ballast or hybrid system restrictions. They have to ban Das when mercedes first time asked them about it just because of that they already fastest team. No, they allowed them to make it and also give them idea how they accept it.But banned for next season, so nobody will develop it. Pure advantege for mercedes.
During winter testing, after das system recovered by the world, ( I think Tanabe San ) Honda said they have a few new things/ideas to apply to their engine but fia didn't approved. Yes, they have zero intention to keep competition alive for sure.

[Mamba]

As I always said that fia doing everything wrong. They say they want to bring more manufacturers to the sport but I think it is just a lie. Because if they wanted to see more, then they would let Honda to develop it's engine token free and allow honda powered team to use more engine than 5, for example, 7 or 8 engine per season. They allow them to test their pu with an old F1 car to develop performance and reliability. If they give these kind of advantages for new comers ( because they will have many disadvantages because of late coming) other manufacturers could think about that. But in these conditions it is not a clever act to come.

Don't MotoGP allow teams that didn't win or get a certain number of podiums free engine development based on the previous season while others have a development freeze till the next season? That will help close the gap or at least give a fair chance at closing it.

[Jolle]

As I always said that fia doing everything wrong. They say they want to bring more manufacturers to the sport but I think it is just a lie. Because if they wanted to see more, then they would let Honda to develop it's engine token free and allow honda powered team to use more engine than 5, for example, 7 or 8 engine per season. They allow them to test their pu with an old F1 car to develop performance and reliability. If they give these kind of advantages for new comers ( because they will have many disadvantages because of late coming) other manufacturers could think about that. But in these conditions it is not a clever act to come.

Don't MotoGP allow teams that didn't win or get a certain number of podiums free engine development based on the previous season while others have a development freeze till the next season? That will help close the gap or at least give a fair chance at closing it.

There was, but not intended to close the field up but to stimulate new manufacturers back into the sport, like Suzuki and KTM.
Ferrari isn’t what you would call “new” to F1. They just Ffed up and paying the price for that.

[Mamba]

There was, but not intended to close the field up but to stimulate new manufacturers back into the sport, like Suzuki and KTM.
Ferrari isn’t what you would call “new” to F1. They just Ffed up and paying the price for that.

Suzuki are exempt from free engine development this year (got two wins last season iirc) while Aprilla & KTM are not. Suzuki rejoined in 2015 while Aprilla have been around since at least the early 2000's so it isn't purely to lure new manufacturers in. KTM being the exception as they started in 2017 without major success yet.

This is honestly something that could work in F1 in my opinion. Ferrari for example would still be duck this year because of their wins and podiums last year but would then be able to catch up again next year provided this year continues south.

[GPR-A]

Of course it is important to have good enough amount of money and human resource to be successful in the sport. But it is not only things to bring success. You can rule to benefit to some team and in the same time to stop other one. (for example; they could ban oil burning before having any question from any team, when they saw there is big advantage a team which has already fastest car. But even after the question they just interested how much oil you burn, not banned it fuly. When they allow oil burning these means if you didn't design your engine to do that then at least one year you lost. So they could allow teams who don't use oil burning, a bit more fuel to use.) Think that If rule would return the times when redbull dominating, mercedes resource will not put them on top, at least it won't be right away and they become a team who need to catch up redbull.
As I always said that fia doing everything wrong. They say they want to bring more manufacturers to the sport but I think it is just a lie. Because if they wanted to see more, then they would let Honda to develop it's engine token free and allow honda powered team to use more engine than 5, for example, 7 or 8 engine per season. They allow them to test their pu with an old F1 car to develop performance and reliability. If they give these kind of advantages for new comers ( because they will have many disadvantages because of late coming) other manufacturers could think about that. But in these conditions it is not a clever act to come.
Fia decided to bring less complicated front wings to the sport. But after seeing this not helped competition then they have to return more competitive rules. At least one year later, or they have to bring success ballast or hybrid system restrictions. They have to ban Das when mercedes first time asked them about it just because of that they already fastest team. No, they allowed them to make it and also give them idea how they accept it.But banned for next season, so nobody will develop it. Pure advantege for mercedes.
During winter testing, after das system recovered by the world, ( I think Tanabe San ) Honda said they have a few new things/ideas to apply to their engine but fia didn't approved. Yes, they have zero intention to keep competition alive for sure.

What rubbish. Honda has been in F1 hybrid for 6th year now. Why do they deserve free development? Why should the Honda teams get 7 or 8 engines per season? Why can't they build cars that can offset the power deficit?

Oil burning was a theory that wasn't proved. Even if it was oil burning that Mercedes was exploiting, they were exploiting an unregulated area, which was then REGULATED by putting a limit to oil burning. You can't make ZERO oil burning because oil is used as a lubricant in ICE. In 2015, their FRIC was also banned as it was an unregulated area and they could then attach FRIC suspension to aero purpose and banned it. It's not that Mercedes goes scot free if there is an area that they are exploiting that is not intended.

FIA approves innovations if it is inline with regulations, like DAS. If a manufacturer goes to FIA asking for allowing innovations that are in violation of regulations, they would obviously get shot. Just because Mercedes is going to FIA with innovation and because they are leading, should FIA reject their innovation, even if it is legal? What nonsense. Only because Honda is behind on power, their innovation should be accepted even if it is not legal, just because they are lagging?

Ferrari showed in 2015 that, a manufacturer can catch up after having a dismal 2014 season with their PU, even with token restricted development. They would most probably come back by next year again. FIA's job is not to artificially create competition by preventing the leading manufacturer and letting the lesser competitive one to come to front. That is just plain stupid. Rules should be same for everyone and whoever does a good job, deserves to win.