[ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
RedNEO
29
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:30 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:57 am
Yeah I’ve seen that as well but from my understanding the engine freeze is only during the season. You can still bring a brand new engine for next year so it makes little sense why you wouldn’t. Also the token spend is only really regarding aero/cooling internals I guess. Again if the tokens are for the side pods and air duct for example wouldn’t altering the shape also mean you can fit a completely different engine inside that’s planned for 2022. I see no reason to waste tokens on cooling the same engine that’s managed absolutely fine this year.
So, they got the cooling wrong and had to run the car more open that they would have liked. More open equals more drag. If they want to fix this, it must be substantial.
If it makes them faster that’s good but I’m just wondering with the gains others make with engine will it be enough?

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
-2
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:52 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

basic question: 2 tokens, where renault going to use it.

User avatar
diffuser
230
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:46 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:30 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:57 am
Yeah I’ve seen that as well but from my understanding the engine freeze is only during the season. You can still bring a brand new engine for next year so it makes little sense why you wouldn’t. Also the token spend is only really regarding aero/cooling internals I guess. Again if the tokens are for the side pods and air duct for example wouldn’t altering the shape also mean you can fit a completely different engine inside that’s planned for 2022. I see no reason to waste tokens on cooling the same engine that’s managed absolutely fine this year.
So, they got the cooling wrong and had to run the car more open that they would have liked. More open equals more drag. If they want to fix this, it must be substantial.
If it makes them faster that’s good but I’m just wondering with the gains others make with engine will it be enough?
I wish they would bring the new PU in 2021, as planned. That's not what Cyril said though.

User avatar
diffuser
230
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:10 pm
basic question: 2 tokens, where renault going to use it.
Red just said in cooling changes.

User avatar
RedNEO
29
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:41 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:46 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:30 pm


So, they got the cooling wrong and had to run the car more open that they would have liked. More open equals more drag. If they want to fix this, it must be substantial.
If it makes them faster that’s good but I’m just wondering with the gains others make with engine will it be enough?
I wish they would bring the new PU in 2021, as planned. That's not what Cyril said though.
They still have time to change there minds if they haven’t already but even if they did we won’t hear about it until testing. Because of the limited testing it could be useful to just use the whole year as a test session for the new engine.

User avatar
diffuser
230
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:33 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:41 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:46 pm


If it makes them faster that’s good but I’m just wondering with the gains others make with engine will it be enough?
I wish they would bring the new PU in 2021, as planned. That's not what Cyril said though.
They still have time to change there minds if they haven’t already but even if they did we won’t hear about it until testing. Because of the limited testing it could be useful to just use the whole year as a test session for the new engine.
It's not me you have to convince. It's Cyril. Me and you, we have no idea why they might not be able to run it in 2021. I can just imagine a million reasons why and repeat what Cyril said.

User avatar
factory_p
16
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:04 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:33 am
They still have time to change there minds if they haven’t already but even if they did we won’t hear about it until testing. Because of the limited testing it could be useful to just use the whole year as a test session for the new engine.
Well actually they don't have time anymore. The lead time to fabricate certain parts of the engine like the crankshaft are far too long to change your choice of PU now.

They made their decision long ago that they will compromise a lot of performance on both 20 and 21 and focus on 22 - chassis and engine-wise. I reckon the worst thing they could do is a knee-jerk reaction to rumored upgrades from the competitors for next year and change their well defined plan. As for the engine, they will keep on fine tuning the 22 spec all year on dyno, make it reliable, map it perfectly to extract the best of it out on track, provide precise CAD and cooling requirements early to the chassis team so they integrate it to perfection, and hopefully mount a proper title challenge for 22 based on a decisive package advantage over the likes of McLaren who are pouring resources on an engine change this winter instead of focusing on 22.

User avatar
RedNEO
29
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

factory_p wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:18 am
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:33 am
They still have time to change there minds if they haven’t already but even if they did we won’t hear about it until testing. Because of the limited testing it could be useful to just use the whole year as a test session for the new engine.
Well actually they don't have time anymore. The lead time to fabricate certain parts of the engine like the crankshaft are far too long to change your choice of PU now.

They made their decision long ago that they will compromise a lot of performance on both 20 and 21 and focus on 22 - chassis and engine-wise. I reckon the worst thing they could do is a knee-jerk reaction to rumored upgrades from the competitors for next year and change their well defined plan. As for the engine, they will keep on fine tuning the 22 spec all year on dyno, make it reliable, map it perfectly to extract the best of it out on track, provide precise CAD and cooling requirements early to the chassis team so they integrate it to perfection, and hopefully mount a proper title challenge for 22 based on a decisive package advantage over the likes of McLaren who are pouring resources on an engine change this winter instead of focusing on 22.
I don’t really see it as a knee jerk since this was supposed to go on the car in 2021 anyway. Remy Taffin implied that this next gen PU will have a completely different cooling system and strategies and that it can not work with the 2020 cooling.

And what is Renault spending its tokens on? Cooling

User avatar
adrianjordan
86
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

factory_p wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:18 am
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:33 am
They still have time to change there minds if they haven’t already but even if they did we won’t hear about it until testing. Because of the limited testing it could be useful to just use the whole year as a test session for the new engine.
Well actually they don't have time anymore. The lead time to fabricate certain parts of the engine like the crankshaft are far too long to change your choice of PU now.

They made their decision long ago that they will compromise a lot of performance on both 20 and 21 and focus on 22 - chassis and engine-wise. I reckon the worst thing they could do is a knee-jerk reaction to rumored upgrades from the competitors for next year and change their well defined plan. As for the engine, they will keep on fine tuning the 22 spec all year on dyno, make it reliable, map it perfectly to extract the best of it out on track, provide precise CAD and cooling requirements early to the chassis team so they integrate it to perfection, and hopefully mount a proper title challenge for 22 based on a decisive package advantage over the likes of McLaren who are pouring resources on an engine change this winter instead of focusing on 22.
But teams, such as Mclaren, and Renault for that matter, can't start working on 2022 designs yet anyway. So are not losing any time.

McLaren will have to rely on Merc for packaging data etc, but there is no reason to think that Merc aren't already hard at work looking for even more gains from their PU.
Bring on the EV revolution!!

User avatar
adrianjordan
86
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:33 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:41 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:46 pm


If it makes them faster that’s good but I’m just wondering with the gains others make with engine will it be enough?
I wish they would bring the new PU in 2021, as planned. That's not what Cyril said though.
They still have time to change there minds if they haven’t already but even if they did we won’t hear about it until testing. Because of the limited testing it could be useful to just use the whole year as a test session for the new engine.
Not if, as rumoured, their is a significant change to the ICE architecture which would require chassis changes.

Oh the irony if McLaren had to get permission to make the modifications they needed to swap to the Merc PU and then Renault bring out one which requires the same modifications - begs the question of what the FIA would have done in those circumstances. They could arguably have imposed restrictions on Renault, but a customer team wouldn't have any choice. Anyway, that's moot because it's not the situation lol.
Bring on the EV revolution!!

User avatar
Big Tea
156
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

Just because they chose not to use an engine does not mean they have not produced it.
They may have produced it and either found it was below what they expected in either power or reliability, or they discover they missed a trick and could have incorporated something into it, so they hold up issue date.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

User avatar
diffuser
230
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:12 pm
Just because they chose not to use an engine does not mean they have not produced it.
They may have produced it and either found it was below what they expected in either power or reliability, or they discover they missed a trick and could have incorporated something into it, so they hold up issue date.
I'm sure they've produced several and are all running on dynos.
I doubt it's a power thing. They already have a starting point for combustion chamber and mgu-h turbo sizing. So they are gonna atleast start at where the old PU was. I see the mid engine turbo a reliability challenge and they might have done stuff to shorten the block/weight.

User avatar
RedNEO
29
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

Alpine F1 Team: the 2022 single-seater successfully passes the crash test
https://uw64l7qiqapchgnxhum43fzb3u-adwh ... -test/amp/

Apparently they are the first car to pass the test followed by Ferrari. I’m surprised they had one so early for 2022 but shows they really want to hit the ground running.

User avatar
lio007
381
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

I wonder why this is still not mentioned in this thread #-o

Infiniti is leaving F1: https://www.planetf1.com/news/infiniti-f1-exit/

User avatar
adrianjordan
86
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Renault F1 Team - Renault

Post

RedNEO wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:15 am
Alpine F1 Team: the 2022 single-seater successfully passes the crash test
https://uw64l7qiqapchgnxhum43fzb3u-adwh ... -test/amp/

Apparently they are the first car to pass the test followed by Ferrari. I’m surprised they had one so early for 2022 but shows they really want to hit the ground running.
That is impossibly early....given they can start working on them properly until the new year!!
Bring on the EV revolution!!