2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:10 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:37 am


The Merc’s following ability this year is arguably the best it has ever been in the hybrid era.

Hamilton was within 1s of Verstappen in France and could stay tucked up there for several laps. They’ve also had zero PU cooling issues this season when following.
Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
But the short term battle is right here in front of them and is very winnable imo. They could have won any of the races they've lost to Redbull so far. It's a close battle. It's quite perplexing to me if they truly are giving up on this year's challenge. And if that is the case, Redbull will pull away because they will not stop development. I'm not saying don't think about next year, but if you're throwing all your eggs at 2022, that is the wrong way to do it imo. There are no guarantees next year and they cannot be cocky enough to think that they are the ones that will get it right.
I think of all the teams on the grid, Mercedes are probably the ones that know starting early is usually the best recipe for success.
Felipe Baby!

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adrianjordan
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:10 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:37 am


The Merc’s following ability this year is arguably the best it has ever been in the hybrid era.

Hamilton was within 1s of Verstappen in France and could stay tucked up there for several laps. They’ve also had zero PU cooling issues this season when following.
Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
But the short term battle is right here in front of them and is very winnable imo. They could have won any of the races they've lost to Redbull so far. It's a close battle. It's quite perplexing to me if they truly are giving up on this year's challenge. And if that is the case, Redbull will pull away because they will not stop development. I'm not saying don't think about next year, but if you're throwing all your eggs at 2022, that is the wrong way to do it imo. There are no guarantees next year and they cannot be cocky enough to think that they are the ones that will get it right.
I don't think making sure you're giving yourself as much time as possible for a major rule change is cocky. The longer you spend on the development work, the more likely you are to be at the front... I refer you to 2014 onwards!!

Leaving it until later and just assuming they can fight this year AND still be confident of being at the front next year. Now THAT would be cocky.
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Kingshark
Kingshark
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 4:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:43 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:04 pm
Told you, the W12 is still fastest. Just sometimes it is a diva, but once it behaves it is clearly fastest.
Get outa heea! as they would say in New York. Come on man. It's getting out of hand at this point. Not sure what a redbull man is trying to prove "reassuring" the Mercedes hopeful the the car is the "fastest" when it hasn't even sniffed pole since six-seven races ago? Just "sometimes" its a diva? It's clear we have no updates and the car has to run a barn-door rear wing to keep competitive. Even today was big gamble to change set-ups. We aren't idiots. We know the car is lacking a whole bunch.
Counting is not your strongest skillset :lol:

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PlatinumZealot
529
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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That's how long it has been. I can't even remember any. Might as well be zero.
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Hammerfist
Hammerfist
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:18 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:13 pm
Hammerfist wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:10 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am


Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
But the short term battle is right here in front of them and is very winnable imo. They could have won any of the races they've lost to Redbull so far. It's a close battle. It's quite perplexing to me if they truly are giving up on this year's challenge. And if that is the case, Redbull will pull away because they will not stop development. I'm not saying don't think about next year, but if you're throwing all your eggs at 2022, that is the wrong way to do it imo. There are no guarantees next year and they cannot be cocky enough to think that they are the ones that will get it right.
I think of all the teams on the grid, Mercedes are probably the ones that know starting early is usually the best recipe for success.
Right. Starting early on this years car surely has reaped enormous benefits so far..

Honestly they should have learned their lesson. They went from a completely dominant car in the w11 to a w12 that can be outqualified occasionally by a lowly Ferrari. Thats what they got for focusing too early on 2021. Now theyre making the same mistake again. That is how dynasties end. You can see it coming. Redbull is gonna 1-2 most qualifying sessions after the summer break. You read it here first.

mkay
mkay
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:37 am
sn809 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:45 am
Merc are suffering because their car does are designed to be leading and need clear air, they don't not have the ability to follow other cars close.
The Merc’s following ability this year is arguably the best it has ever been in the hybrid era.

Hamilton was within 1s of Verstappen in France and could stay tucked up there for several laps. They’ve also had zero PU cooling issues this season when following.
Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
I’d be curious to know what Mario Thiessen thinks of Merc’s strategy to put all their eggs in 2022. It failed miserably for BMW in 2008-09, and cost them their only reliable shot at a title.

There is 0 guarantee that Merc’s focus on 2022 will help them. Besides RB has only sacrificed, what, 1 month of development on the 2022 car to devote resources to the 2021 car. RB sacrificing 2022 resources to secure both titles this year could also be interpreted that they’re extremely confident in their 2022 project.

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SiLo
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Hammerfist wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:30 pm
SiLo wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:13 pm
Hammerfist wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:10 pm


But the short term battle is right here in front of them and is very winnable imo. They could have won any of the races they've lost to Redbull so far. It's a close battle. It's quite perplexing to me if they truly are giving up on this year's challenge. And if that is the case, Redbull will pull away because they will not stop development. I'm not saying don't think about next year, but if you're throwing all your eggs at 2022, that is the wrong way to do it imo. There are no guarantees next year and they cannot be cocky enough to think that they are the ones that will get it right.
I think of all the teams on the grid, Mercedes are probably the ones that know starting early is usually the best recipe for success.
Right. Starting early on this years car surely has reaped enormous benefits so far..

Honestly they should have learned their lesson. They went from a completely dominant car in the w11 to a w12 that can be outqualified occasionally by a lowly Ferrari. Thats what they got for focusing too early on 2021. Now theyre making the same mistake again. That is how dynasties end. You can see it coming. Redbull is gonna 1-2 most qualifying sessions after the summer break. You read it here first.
It's not their fault the floor changes were made after teams had started work on the 2021 cars, and then later on the tyre changes were made as well.
Felipe Baby!

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Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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For once Mercedes is not completely utterly dominant and this whole thread is in absolute panick. Soo much overreacting. If people in all the other topics reacted like this they would have all had a nervous breakdown 7 years ago.

Just chill, this is a good run by Red Bull, but just 3 races ago it looked like another easy Mercedes WDC (remember Spain and Portugal?). Season is only a quarter down and plenty of racing to do.
Last edited by Pyrone89 on Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:57 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:37 am


The Merc’s following ability this year is arguably the best it has ever been in the hybrid era.

Hamilton was within 1s of Verstappen in France and could stay tucked up there for several laps. They’ve also had zero PU cooling issues this season when following.
Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
I’d be curious to know what Mario Thiessen thinks of Merc’s strategy to put all their eggs in 2022. It failed miserably for BMW in 2008-09, and cost them their only reliable shot at a title.

There is 0 guarantee that Merc’s focus on 2022 will help them. Besides RB has only sacrificed, what, 1 month of development on the 2022 car to devote resources to the 2021 car. RB sacrificing 2022 resources to secure both titles this year could also be interpreted that they’re extremely confident in their 2022 project.
RBR has the huge risk of taking over a PU project.

They are definitely putting all their eggs into this year’s basket and Marko has admitted as much several times.

Starting early before the hybrid era paid off dividends for Merc. Not sure why you’re not considering that example.

And where do you get this 1 month figure from?

mkay
mkay
10
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:40 pm
mkay wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:57 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:58 am


Exactly. They are suffering because either they’ve made a decision not to upgrade the 2021 car- in favour of the strongest car for 2022- and hang their chances on whether what they’ve got enough with what they already have (looks like not) OR they are just down a development dead end, given what they can achieve in terms of gain with the 2021 regs and development constraints.

It’s probably better to focus on 2022 and the long game rather than throw time and energy into what might be an unwinnable short term battle.
I’d be curious to know what Mario Thiessen thinks of Merc’s strategy to put all their eggs in 2022. It failed miserably for BMW in 2008-09, and cost them their only reliable shot at a title.

There is 0 guarantee that Merc’s focus on 2022 will help them. Besides RB has only sacrificed, what, 1 month of development on the 2022 car to devote resources to the 2021 car. RB sacrificing 2022 resources to secure both titles this year could also be interpreted that they’re extremely confident in their 2022 project.
RBR has the huge risk of taking over a PU project.

They are definitely putting all their eggs into this year’s basket and Marko has admitted as much several times.

Starting early before the hybrid era paid off dividends for Merc. Not sure why you’re not considering that example.

And where do you get this 1 month figure from?
Re: hybrid era: Yes, but on the engine front, not chassis front.

Because I presume any upgrades they’ve thrown at the car in recent weeks would have been commissioned around April time, and we know Merc worked hard at improving the car after testing/Bahrain, so the gap is give or take 1 month. A good ROI for RB all things considered.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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The unknown here is what exactly Merc have spent the tokens on. Is it something that is not yet sorted and when it clicks will be a game changer? or even is it testing something for the new car that is not helping, or even hindering this car?

As conspiracy theories suggest, are Merc gearing up to the second half of the season at the cost of learning things this half, and incidentally getting a time bonus, and the probability of it being too late in the development cycle of other teams new cars to include it?

Then again, they could just have under estimated how good the RBR was going to be, and the effect of the lost edges and tyre pressure changes and are cussing behind closed doors.
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F1Krof
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Where is Mercedes' strategy department? Are they on holiday or what is going on?
Wroom wroom

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Congrats RedBull. Well done. I'm happy for Honda at least.
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Carl Mccoy
Carl Mccoy
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Twilight of the Gods?

sri1031raj
sri1031raj
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:00 am
The unknown here is what exactly Merc have spent the tokens on. Is it something that is not yet sorted and when it clicks will be a game changer? or even is it testing something for the new car that is not helping, or even hindering this car?

As conspiracy theories suggest, are Merc gearing up to the second half of the season at the cost of learning things this half, and incidentally getting a time bonus, and the probability of it being too late in the development cycle of other teams new cars to include it?

Then again, they could just have under estimated how good the RBR was going to be, and the effect of the lost edges and tyre pressure changes and are cussing behind closed doors.
James Allison inherited a dominant car and has turned it around :oops: … he seems to be overrated technically!