2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Jolle
Jolle
255
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:21 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:06 am
mclaren_mircea wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:54 am
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite ... d=50834319
According to multiple sources Mercedes will have just electric engines from the next decade. I thought that the plug in hybrid still have a future. I love this team, and it scares me that they could retire after 2025. What do you think? Cand that have consequences for the F1 team? I thought that bio fuel and zero emissions togethar that it is a marketing platform for Daimler secures the futur eof the team in the long term. They are not Honda. They are here from 1995 at some form and they have a factory team that was set up an the high of the financial crisis in 2009. They did not run out. I think they will be here to fight the Red Bulls on the long term.
Renault has the same kind of pledge, Fiat probably as well.

One of the reasons they are racing under the AMG, Alpine and Ferrari name.
It was mentioned over the weekend (but I'm sure is common knowledge on here anyway) that they are targeting biofuel for F1 in the near future, so I'm sure all the R+D going into that will shape some sort of sustainable future for conventional(ish) engines for road cars in the future.
The roadmap that the big companies laid out looks pretty similar for all of them. Their high volume models/brands are going EV in the short term and hybrid for their low volume sport brands. Daimler just invested in a whole new powertrain with an MUG-H unit for AMG and FCA is also taking that route with the new Ferrari 296. Biofuels are also for a while now being introduced for exciting cars, so expect more of that. That F1 is going biofuel is probably more to do with the influence of Shell, Petronas and Exon, to stay relevant as well.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
26
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Accidental double post whilst I was trying to edit, sorry.
Last edited by Marty_Y on Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
26
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ri-bottas/
Moving over for Hamilton is, Wolff says, is a team order that will remain in play as long as the championship battle continues.

“It is very important because statistically, his odds to win the championship are very small compared to Lewis who is very much in the fight,” explained Wolff.

“We have discussed that and as tough as it is for a driver, there is no room for margin in this year’s championship.”

User avatar
El Scorchio
56
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:38 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:21 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:06 am


Renault has the same kind of pledge, Fiat probably as well.

One of the reasons they are racing under the AMG, Alpine and Ferrari name.
It was mentioned over the weekend (but I'm sure is common knowledge on here anyway) that they are targeting biofuel for F1 in the near future, so I'm sure all the R+D going into that will shape some sort of sustainable future for conventional(ish) engines for road cars in the future.
The roadmap that the big companies laid out looks pretty similar for all of them. Their high volume models/brands are going EV in the short term and hybrid for their low volume sport brands. Daimler just invested in a whole new powertrain with an MUG-H unit for AMG and FCA is also taking that route with the new Ferrari 296. Biofuels are also for a while now being introduced for exciting cars, so expect more of that. That F1 is going biofuel is probably more to do with the influence of Shell, Petronas and Exon, to stay relevant as well.
Yes, you are probably entirely correct! (Definitely regarding the petroleum companies) I guess electricity is the most feasible/reachable at the moment. Although of course how a lot of the electricity may be generated is a bit of an environmental question mark. Hopefully F1 and the engineers (including Mercedes, just to keep this at least a little on topic!) can make some great inroads into more new technology that will power us for years to come.

As an aside I was watching an episode of James May's cars of the people yesterday and on that it was mentioned that lots of great tech for things like electricity and hydrogen was invented a really long time ago but there was no hope of establishing any kind of infrastructure to support it. Which I didn't know and found quite interesting.

Anyway. Going off on a tangent here so I'll stop...

User avatar
El Scorchio
56
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:55 pm
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ri-bottas/
Moving over for Hamilton is, Wolff says, is a team order that will remain in play as long as the championship battle continues.

“It is very important because statistically, his odds to win the championship are very small compared to Lewis who is very much in the fight,” explained Wolff.

“We have discussed that and as tough as it is for a driver, there is no room for margin in this year’s championship.”
A difficult choice, but the sensible choice, even if it sucks for Bottas. Kudos to him.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
26
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:55 pm
https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... ri-bottas/
Moving over for Hamilton is, Wolff says, is a team order that will remain in play as long as the championship battle continues.

“It is very important because statistically, his odds to win the championship are very small compared to Lewis who is very much in the fight,” explained Wolff.

“We have discussed that and as tough as it is for a driver, there is no room for margin in this year’s championship.”
A difficult choice, but the sensible choice, even if it sucks for Bottas. Kudos to him.
I totally agree, it's the right decision given the circumstances.

User avatar
Big Tea
163
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:02 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:38 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:21 pm


It was mentioned over the weekend (but I'm sure is common knowledge on here anyway) that they are targeting biofuel for F1 in the near future, so I'm sure all the R+D going into that will shape some sort of sustainable future for conventional(ish) engines for road cars in the future.
The roadmap that the big companies laid out looks pretty similar for all of them. Their high volume models/brands are going EV in the short term and hybrid for their low volume sport brands. Daimler just invested in a whole new powertrain with an MUG-H unit for AMG and FCA is also taking that route with the new Ferrari 296. Biofuels are also for a while now being introduced for exciting cars, so expect more of that. That F1 is going biofuel is probably more to do with the influence of Shell, Petronas and Exon, to stay relevant as well.
Yes, you are probably entirely correct! (Definitely regarding the petroleum companies) I guess electricity is the most feasible/reachable at the moment. Although of course how a lot of the electricity may be generated is a bit of an environmental question mark. Hopefully F1 and the engineers (including Mercedes, just to keep this at least a little on topic!) can make some great inroads into more new technology that will power us for years to come.

As an aside I was watching an episode of James May's cars of the people yesterday and on that it was mentioned that lots of great tech for things like electricity and hydrogen was invented a really long time ago but there was no hope of establishing any kind of infrastructure to support it. Which I didn't know and found quite interesting.

Anyway. Going off on a tangent here so I'll stop...
I love this, from 13.30

How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

User avatar
El Scorchio
56
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:49 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:02 pm
Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:38 pm


The roadmap that the big companies laid out looks pretty similar for all of them. Their high volume models/brands are going EV in the short term and hybrid for their low volume sport brands. Daimler just invested in a whole new powertrain with an MUG-H unit for AMG and FCA is also taking that route with the new Ferrari 296. Biofuels are also for a while now being introduced for exciting cars, so expect more of that. That F1 is going biofuel is probably more to do with the influence of Shell, Petronas and Exon, to stay relevant as well.
Yes, you are probably entirely correct! (Definitely regarding the petroleum companies) I guess electricity is the most feasible/reachable at the moment. Although of course how a lot of the electricity may be generated is a bit of an environmental question mark. Hopefully F1 and the engineers (including Mercedes, just to keep this at least a little on topic!) can make some great inroads into more new technology that will power us for years to come.

As an aside I was watching an episode of James May's cars of the people yesterday and on that it was mentioned that lots of great tech for things like electricity and hydrogen was invented a really long time ago but there was no hope of establishing any kind of infrastructure to support it. Which I didn't know and found quite interesting.

Anyway. Going off on a tangent here so I'll stop...
I love this, from 13.30

Funny you should mention Jay Leno! On that same ep I was referring to, they spend some time in Leno's gas turbine powered Chrysler from the 60's

User avatar
SiLo
126
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:15 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 pm
A difficult choice, but the sensible choice, even if it sucks for Bottas. Kudos to him.
I totally agree, it's the right decision given the circumstances.
And he's in this position mostly because of his own poor performances here and there. Otherwise he's been driving well and been pretty close to Lewis. 2 bad races in Imola and Baku are the reason he is down where he is, plus some poor luck in Monaco where he was set for a podium.
Felipe Baby!

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
26
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

SiLo wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:30 pm
Marty_Y wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:15 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 pm


A difficult choice, but the sensible choice, even if it sucks for Bottas. Kudos to him.
I totally agree, it's the right decision given the circumstances.
And he's in this position mostly because of his own poor performances here and there. Otherwise he's been driving well and been pretty close to Lewis. 2 bad races in Imola and Baku are the reason he is down where he is, plus some poor luck in Monaco where he was set for a podium.
He does seem to be cursed with bad luck, What happened at Imola and Monaco were circumstances beyond his control so I don't think he can be blamed. He struggled to find a set up to get the car working for himself at Baku, but Hamilton had the same issue at Monaco.

I've got sympathy for what he's being asked to do, but over the last few years he's been in a very privileged position of driving a car capable of winning him a WDC, if you think about it for the last few years only 2 teams and 4 drivers realistically could win. Last year only the W11 could win, Ferrari were nowhere and Red Bull just wasn't fast enough (at least until the end of the season when it was too late)

I think last year at Silverstone is a perfect example of his luck, his tyre fails and he ends up with no points (which was the start of the end for his chance of winning a WDC), Lewis's tyre fails and he wins the race on three wheels.

He's never going to be a champion but at least he's had a realistic chance of it, which is more than most other drivers on the grid have ever had IMO.

Personally I hope he stays for another season, I like and and think Russell is a very good driver but Bottas makes a better teammate.

zibby43
zibby43
668
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Ant drives the W12:


User avatar
atanatizante
67
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:50 pm

...

Yeah, Lewis has certainly lost a tenth or 2 with being 36yrs old. But he makes up for it on Sundays with consistency and reading the race better. Also able to work the tyres better than the others more often than not. All the greats were the same, Schumacher, Prost, Lauda etc etc.
Do you think that Michael, when he grabbed the pole position at the 2012 Monte Carlo race, his 43 years did play a part in losing time?
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

User avatar
atanatizante
67
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

ringo wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:21 pm
Anyhow,

It looks like the upgrades work and Mercedes are closer to redbull. I would say equal on average. redbull have q3 and soft tyre pace and cornering advantage. Merc have hard tyre pace and what seems to be topspeed again.

Bodes well for the championship fight.
Slow cornering I would like to add may be due to a greater mechanical grip coming out from their high rake philosophy? My two cents :D
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

User avatar
atanatizante
67
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

mkay wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:51 pm
...

Yes, but it felt to me like Max had it under control and was managing the gap (which increased to about 3 seconds by lap 13 or so) until the blistering warning from his team. Hamilton wasn't really able to get close to DRS vs. Max.

On the other hand, HAM was able to run sub 1.5s gap to LEC for a while, and came close to activating DRS, until the tyres starting giving up towards the end of the stint. That indicates to me he probably had a slightly stronger pace but not enough to pass.

To be fair though, since Max didn't run on Sunday, we have no proper yardstick. Also, temperatures were marginally warmer on Sunday, and it does look like either Merc regressed on full tanks + warmer temps, or Leclerc/Ferrari got stronger, compared to the Sprint Qualifying.

I guess we'll have a better idea in 2 weeks. I suspect Ferrari will be very strong around Budapest, especially considering the forecast temps.
In the sprint race, HAM was 3 sec. down from VER after 13 laps and that is worth almost 2 tenths/lap due to the medium C2 tyre. Merc and especially HAM had set up the car for the main race tyre - C1 - which should have covered some 55-60% of the race distance. Based on FP1 race sims it seems that HAM was some 3 tenths faster on C1 than VER and adding that to the lowering track temps towards the end of the race they think he`d get a good chance of surpassing VER near the end of the race, something he actually did with LEC in the race, both RB and Ferrari running better on the softer spec of the Pirelli tyres ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

User avatar
ringo
239
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

I do not think the W12 will do well at Hungary.
It will be slower than the redbull. Lewis will have to get into Max's head again. :mrgreen:
The last time out the redbull was pretty handy. Had it not been for the strategy and tyre management Mercedes would have been in trouble.
For Sure!!