2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
scheffers
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:11 am
Very wide off-piste exit after 4 turns. Wouldn't the FIA remove such a circle in qualifying?

----yes---

Edit: NO :mrgreen:
Last edited by scheffers on Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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scheffers wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:14 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:11 am
Very wide off-piste exit after 4 turns. Wouldn't the FIA remove such a circle in qualifying?

yes
They didnt last year

scheffers
scheffers
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:41 am
scheffers wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:14 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:11 am
Very wide off-piste exit after 4 turns. Wouldn't the FIA remove such a circle in qualifying?

yes
They didnt last year
Ah , you are correct. They abandoned monitoring turn4 last year after FP. (I only heard sky commentators say otherwise this weekend that's why I made the assumption)

Cassius
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Would be good to estimate Hamilton's fuel level by looking at his speed trap of his fastest lap and compare to Verstappen's ~310km/h.

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Cassius wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:53 pm
Would be good to estimate Hamilton's fuel level by looking at his speed trap of his fastest lap and compare to Verstappen's ~310km/h.
It was the same ~309 kmh.

SirBastianVettel
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:11 am
Very wide off-piste exit after 4 turns. Wouldn't the FIA remove such a circle in qualifying?
I don’t think they enforced track limits at that corner last year. I think they should though, because it’s silly to let drivers go that wide.

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If they do, it appears to me ALL drivers will have to stick to track. I have seen nothing from the car suggesting it having trouble to make a turn. It was just optimizing the line. Verstappen went wide 1 time in that very long turn a bit later down the lap and that was because he was on a push lap and got in the dirty air from Ricciardo (who was log running) just when he was on entry. A bad coincidence.
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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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(stupid head attached here) Probably not the right place to ask it, and no doubt it is obvious to those who closely follow the aero rules, but the huge 'gap' beneath the rear of the car, can they put anything in it? such as another winglet? It would be in the area 'filled' with car if the rake angle was not so steep, so can it be used at all?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:18 pm
(stupid head attached here) Probably not the right place to ask it, and no doubt it is obvious to those who closely follow the aero rules, but the huge 'gap' beneath the rear of the car, can they put anything in it? such as another winglet? It would be in the area 'filled' with car if the rake angle was not so steep, so can it be used at all?
Why a high rake car is less affected?

The air that spills off the car is further away from the ground, thus less prone to ground effect and interacting with the tire squirt.

The Mercedes had the advantage of wider floor and brake ducts, and could manage the tire squirt that way. Their complex shapes are good, but with lower rake, the air spilling off the car is more affected by ground effect and tire squirt. The Red Bull has higher rake, and is less affected by ground effect, reducing the interaction with tire squirt.

To an extent this explains why the heat affects Mercedes more than Red Bull.

Mercedes now has to adapt and add rake to the car. In other words it's Mercedes that's starting on the back foot, and Red Bull is starting in a good position. Can Mercedes catch up? Likely, but they'd be sacrificing 2022 to do so.
Saishū kōnā

zibby43
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:45 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:18 pm
(stupid head attached here) Probably not the right place to ask it, and no doubt it is obvious to those who closely follow the aero rules, but the huge 'gap' beneath the rear of the car, can they put anything in it? such as another winglet? It would be in the area 'filled' with car if the rake angle was not so steep, so can it be used at all?
Why a high rake car is less affected?

The air that spills off the car is further away from the ground, thus less prone to ground effect and interacting with the tire squirt.

The Mercedes had the advantage of wider floor and brake ducts, and could manage the tire squirt that way. Their complex shapes are good, but with lower rake, the air spilling off the car is more affected by ground effect and tire squirt. The Red Bull has higher rake, and is less affected by ground effect, reducing the interaction with tire squirt.

To an extent this explains why the heat affects Mercedes more than Red Bull.

Mercedes now has to adapt and add rake to the car. In other words it's Mercedes that's starting on the back foot, and Red Bull is starting in a good position. Can Mercedes catch up? Likely, but they'd be sacrificing 2022 to do so.
Merc engineers just confirmed to AMuS it has nothing to do with rake, and that they’ve seen nothing in the data that suggests lower-rake cars are more affected by the regulation changes.

Just as an FYI. I admit, I almost got suckered by the talking heads into thinking that could be an issue, but clearly it’s not.

Also, out of curiosity, did you mean longer floor, as opposed to wider? A wider floor would be illegal.

Red Bull definitely looks more drivable at the moment, but I don’t think we have a clue as to peak performance. Helmut told AMuS that RBR was running a bit lighter on the fuel in testing, especially compared to Merc.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:38 am
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:45 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:18 pm
(stupid head attached here) Probably not the right place to ask it, and no doubt it is obvious to those who closely follow the aero rules, but the huge 'gap' beneath the rear of the car, can they put anything in it? such as another winglet? It would be in the area 'filled' with car if the rake angle was not so steep, so can it be used at all?
Why a high rake car is less affected?

The air that spills off the car is further away from the ground, thus less prone to ground effect and interacting with the tire squirt.

The Mercedes had the advantage of wider floor and brake ducts, and could manage the tire squirt that way. Their complex shapes are good, but with lower rake, the air spilling off the car is more affected by ground effect and tire squirt. The Red Bull has higher rake, and is less affected by ground effect, reducing the interaction with tire squirt.

To an extent this explains why the heat affects Mercedes more than Red Bull.

Mercedes now has to adapt and add rake to the car. In other words it's Mercedes that's starting on the back foot, and Red Bull is starting in a good position. Can Mercedes catch up? Likely, but they'd be sacrificing 2022 to do so.
Merc engineers just confirmed to AMuS it has nothing to do with rake, and that they’ve seen nothing in the data that suggests lower-rake cars are more affected by the regulation changes.

Just as an FYI. I admit, I almost got suckered by the talking heads into thinking that could be an issue, but clearly it’s not.

Also, out of curiosity, did you mean longer floor, as opposed to wider? A wider floor would be illegal.

Red Bull definitely looks more drivable at the moment, but I don’t think we have a clue as to peak performance. Helmut told AMuS that RBR was running a bit lighter on the fuel in testing, especially compared to Merc.
It could just be Mercedes typical sandbagging. I remember often when RBR was closer to Mercedes they'd have a good practice session only to be destroyed in qualifying.

Mindgames, or maybe they really are on the back foot. We'll know in two weeks.
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Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I’ve just checked the odds on Bwin and Verstappen is the favourite for Bahrain, marginally ahead of Hamilton

2.55 vs 2.75

I’m not a betting man but I do find it interesting to see how the bookies perceive the odds to be.

hasika
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Honda F1 PU development general manager Asagi Yasuaki’s intreview
https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/Honda ... t/5750749/

·Around the fall of last year when Honda decided to quit , I told CEO Takahiro Hachigo that we cant finish the project if we didnt bring the “new skleton PU” .Then he gave the green light,so finally we can start this year with the PU of “the new skeleton”.
·I think a lot people will ask what “the new skeleton”is, and I think it will be finally analyzed several years later later after all, so I will tell you some details.First of all, the layout of the camshaft has been made significantly more compact and lowered. This will change all the valve angles, so the shape of the combustion chamber will also change significantly. That's the goal, but at the same time it's very compact and the center of gravity will be lower too.It also increases the freedom in designing the air flow above the camshaft. The bore pitch (distance between cylinders) has also been shortened, which has also led to compactness.
·We did everything to create the “new skeleton PU“ to increase the power, but I believe that Red Bull(chassis side)can also benefit from the more compact PU.
·According to the law of energy recovery, increasing the horsepower of the crank normally reduces the energy of the exhaust. But we found a way to increase both ICE power and energy power.
·The rest is how much the rivals will gain.The 3 test days is over and no manufacturer showed the true performance as always.So I have both expectations and anxieties about what will happen in the qualifying for the first race, but I have a great feeling that I have done what I can do, so i can end the F1 activity with a great of condidence as a technician.
Last edited by hasika on Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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hasika wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:15 pm
Honda F1 PU development general manager Asagi Yasuaki’s intreview
https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/Honda ... t/5750749/

·Around the fall of last year when Honda decided to quit , I told CEO Takahiro Hachigo that we cant finish the project if we didnt bring the “new skleton PU” .Then he gave the green light,so finally we can start this year with the PU of “the new skeleton”.
·I think a lot people will ask what “the new skeleton”is, and I think it will be finally analyzed several years later later after all, so I will tell you some details.First of all, the layout of the camshaft has been made significantly more compact and lowered. This will change all the valve angles, so the shape of the combustion chamber will also change significantly. That's the goal, but at the same time it's very compact and the center of gravity will be lower too.It also increases the freedom in designing the air flow above the camshaft. The bore pitch (distance between cylinders) has also been shortened, which has also led to compactness.
·We did everything to create the “new skeleton PU“ to increase the power, but I believe that it was Red Bull(chassis side)can also benefit from the more compact PU.
·According to the law of energy recovery, increasing the horsepower of the crank normally reduces the energy of the exhaust. But we found a way to increase both ICE power and energy power.
·The rest is how much the rivals wii gian.The 3 test days is over and no manufacturer showed the true performance as always.So I have both expectations and anxieties about what will happen when the qualifying for the first race, but I have a great feeling that I have done what I can do, so i can end the F1 activity with a great of condidence as a technician.
Great post. THank you.
I think, according to what Hachigo san have said, it must be really good gain at compactness of engine otherwise he wouldn't talk about redbull's gain at car design.
In the same time I understand that they are at the attack mode rather than being cautious. I am looking forward to see full power of engine at the first Q.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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hasika wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:15 pm
Honda F1 PU development general manager Asagi Yasuaki’s intreview
https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/Honda ... t/5750749/
- - - - - - -
And again, thank you very much for this information @Hasika!