2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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_cerber1
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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James Key: Our work this year is the result of careful pre-planning. Many of the decisions that appeared on the car in the first half of the season were planned even before Christmas. I think this year we really devoted more time to the actual car than any other team. But who's to say what is the optimal balance? Why might this season be less important than any other? I do not think that the decisions made will negatively affect our performances in 2022.

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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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_cerber1 wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 14:26
James Key: Our work this year is the result of careful pre-planning. Many of the decisions that appeared on the car in the first half of the season were planned even before Christmas. I think this year we really devoted more time to the actual car than any other team. But who's to say what is the optimal balance? Why might this season be less important than any other? I do not think that the decisions made will negatively affect our performances in 2022.

Errrr.... James, could I just ask you something...?

Can I get what you're having?

Can someone explain to me how spending less time on next years car can be a good thing overall? Am I missing something?
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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_cerber1 wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 14:26
James Key: Our work this year is the result of careful pre-planning. Many of the decisions that appeared on the car in the first half of the season were planned even before Christmas. I think this year we really devoted more time to the actual car than any other team. But who's to say what is the optimal balance? Why might this season be less important than any other? I do not think that the decisions made will negatively affect our performances in 2022.
Very interesting quote… Up for interpretation what he means by “devoted more time to the actual car”… It doesn’t necessarily mean CFD / Wind Tunnel time… So it wouldn’t be surprising if an important portion of the staff have been focused on the MCL35M.

We also need to be careful with these comments, there could be a lot of misdirection in there too.

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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 15:49
_cerber1 wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 14:26
James Key: Our work this year is the result of careful pre-planning. Many of the decisions that appeared on the car in the first half of the season were planned even before Christmas. I think this year we really devoted more time to the actual car than any other team. But who's to say what is the optimal balance? Why might this season be less important than any other? I do not think that the decisions made will negatively affect our performances in 2022.
Very interesting quote… Up for interpretation what he means by “devoted more time to the actual car”… It doesn’t necessarily mean CFD / Wind Tunnel time… So it wouldn’t be surprising if an important portion of the staff have been focused on the MCL35M.

We also need to be careful with these comments, there could be a lot of misdirection in there too.
But he does clearly mean the balance between this year and next years development.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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bauc
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkjCv ... 6rVRgKASwg

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:03
SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 15:49
_cerber1 wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 14:26
James Key: Our work this year is the result of careful pre-planning. Many of the decisions that appeared on the car in the first half of the season were planned even before Christmas. I think this year we really devoted more time to the actual car than any other team. But who's to say what is the optimal balance? Why might this season be less important than any other? I do not think that the decisions made will negatively affect our performances in 2022.
Very interesting quote… Up for interpretation what he means by “devoted more time to the actual car”… It doesn’t necessarily mean CFD / Wind Tunnel time… So it wouldn’t be surprising if an important portion of the staff have been focused on the MCL35M.

We also need to be careful with these comments, there could be a lot of misdirection in there too.
But he does clearly mean the balance between this year and next years development.
Everything I’ve read, including the quote from Key is that everything is going according to plan, the quote above states that the developments on the first half of the season where planned by Christmas…

The fact that it may appear that work on the MCL35M went deeper into the season than our competitors is anecdotal and I’m glad that the team didn’t react to what the rest of the grid may have stated in regards to their timing to switching development towards 2022.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Thought the quote from Key was interesting, so here is the whole article:

McLaren is one of the big winners of the 2021 season. But did the team accept losses with the new car for 2022 for the quick success? auto motor und sport asked technical director James Key for an interview.

McLaren has chosen the path of holding on a little longer to the development of the 2021 car, rather than pooling all resources early on for next year's car. Why?
Key: There are different ways to interpret the transition. The timing of updates at the track says nothing about how long you've actually been developing the car. We have only recently introduced upgrades, but they were approved by the aerodynamicists and designers some time ago. We put them through the system while we were already working on next year's car. It was hard to predict where the teams would be this year because there were hard cuts in aerodynamics. We are talking about a loss of one second per lap. There was a big risk of falling behind if you didn't react to it directly. In a situation like that, you don't just give away a season - even if there is such a huge task waiting afterwards. We wanted to make sure we got to a reasonable level that we considered competitive.

How did you manage that?
Key: It requires a lot of forward planning. A lot of the projects that made it to the car in the first half of the season were planned before Christmas. That's quite a big time lag. I guess we probably dedicated a bit more time to this year's car to get our projects through than maybe some other teams. But what is the right balance between two seasons? What makes this season less important than another? I don't think it affects us particularly for 2022 at the moment. We have been focusing on the next car for a long time.

McLaren currently wants to be third in the world championship, on the other hand you want to catch up with the top in the future. New rules are a stepping stone. Aren't you in danger of being left behind for a long time?
Key: It was very difficult to find the right balance. The 2022 car is created on a blank sheet. Of course, you take with you the knowledge of how to design a car. The knowledge that you think makes a car fast. But when it comes to the mechanical layout of the car, the aerodynamic tools, it will be completely different in 2022 than what we are used to.
If you were in the luxurious position that you could just write off this season and invest 100 per cent in next year and the future, then of course that would be great.

But?
Key: But if you're sitting on the pit wall and you get knocked out in the first qualifying part of the first race, that would be hard to swallow. Then you might think: we should have put more time into this car. At the end of the day, we are all racers. We've tried to get the balance right so that we're racing at a reasonable level this season, but not giving too much away in 2022. There are also the constraints on aerodynamics with less time in the wind tunnel and less CFD. And the budget cap in general. You have to properly weight the resources and budgets between the projects. We won't know what the right way is until 2022. Each team has to follow the approach that they themselves think is right.

You talk about a blank sheet. Is there anything you can transfer from this year's car to 2022. Or was the development work for the dustbin?
Key: What you take across the most is your understanding. You just have to apply it in a new environment. In terms of parts, you can't take anything across for the most part because the new rules are so different that it needs new designs. Different layouts. The tyres are completely different and require new suspensions. The set-ups you have worked out won't be worth anything in 2022. But we have accumulated a lot of knowledge in different areas. Of course, every Formula One team has done that over the years. How to approach the design of an underbody. How to set up the layout of the radiators. How to design the gearbox.

Meaning?
Key: We have accumulated a lot of expertise in these areas. What makes a car fast now will make it fast in 2022. It's just about adapting to the rules and the new toolbox you get. We have to relearn what is the best, what is the optimum for the 2022 car. This knowledge helps us to design a completely new car. You also have an understanding of what characteristics you want to give the new car. What handling it should have.

How much does the budget cap affect your development work?
Key: It has an impact. And that's the way it should be. We have always said that the cost cap is the right way to go for this sport. Formula 1 has needed it for a long time. Not only to make the competition more balanced. But also because Formula 1 cannot be as expensive as it was to be viable in the climate that exists in the world. We are living through a pandemic. That has economic implications, which is why the budget cap was lowered further last year. We are a team that is maxing out the budget. So we have to be careful how we spend our money.

Meaning?
Key: It guides you to a more efficient way of thinking. You don't put everything you could do into every project anymore if the budget wasn't limited. We prioritise more. You look more at the longevity of the parts. You look at what you can take from one year to the next. It's hard with 2021 to 2022, but it becomes an issue again after 2022. There may be certain areas of the car that stay similar in terms of design. Often these are areas underneath the fairing that you don't see. For example, we have homologated the gearbox. So it will be a fixed component after 2022. All this influences our approach. Of course, we regularly review how we are doing with these prioritisations.

How much did you have to rebuild the engineering department to operate within the ceiling?
Key: We don't talk about the details in public, of course. We've had to do some minor reallocations, which we were going to do anyway, so that we have a more efficient structure. So we put together a few groups that are pursuing the same subject and the same goals. So there was some restructuring in the background, but nothing really dramatic. It hasn't had a substantial impact on us. It's still pretty much the team I joined a few years ago.

The 2022 rules are written very restrictively. Will all the cars look the same because of that or is there enough scope for ten different cars?
Key: I think they will probably look more similar than we are used to at the moment. It was interesting when we came up with these rules with Formula 1 and the FIA. A lot of good work went into it. I remember a picture with the 2020 cars at the time, but without the livery. It wasn't even easy to find your own car. So you could argue that there are similarities between the cars either way, even today. If you look closer, you notice the differences, but from a distance and without the colours, it's quite difficult to name them. So I don't think it's a problem if the cars look more alike.

How does that affect your work?
Key: The rules are more restrictive. But it's not that we fall into depression because we have less freedom. It's more that it creates a spirit of innovation. People want to find out what they can do within the rules. You get all kinds of ideas that you might not have had with freer rules. So there is a chance to see differences in the nuances. I don't think the scope with these cars will be exhausted quickly and everyone will be at the same performance level. We will get to a point where there will be new, fresh approaches in areas that may have stayed the same for years. For me, it's exciting times because it emphasises the engineering side. If you just think about how you approach developing a car in this environment, you come up with different ideas and ways of thinking.

The learning curve for the engineers is getting steep, and on the other hand, the budget ceiling is dropping even further. What do you expect in terms of the development rate? New parts every race or more distance in between?
Key: The approach to development depends on how much potential you see in your car for big steps. And we don't know that at the moment. We are curious to see how it will come. At the moment we are on a journey of discovery with the new cars. We are still at an early stage. We are still wondering what the possibilities are. If you feel there's still a lot of potential, that tends to lead to a more extensive upgrade package. A few more development loops with a component, for example the underbody, can lead to greater progress. So why not wait, and put together an appropriate package? But if you can develop something that works independently of the rest of the car, for example a front wing or the diffuser, then you can allow yourself to bring it in small sub-steps. As for the cost cap, we'll have to wait and see. It will have an impact because you can't do everything anymore. The development rate will be quite high next year. Especially when everyone knows where they stand and when everyone has learned more about correlating their cars with expectations. Of course, then you will also see what the others have done. I expect a lot of action next year.

They say the cars will be three seconds slower than the current ones. Does a loss apply to all types of corners? Or will the new cars perhaps be faster in certain sections due to the ground effect?
Key: It's still too early to say exactly how the performance delta will turn out. We also don't know how the tyres will behave, which will be very different. What their grip level will be. There is still development going on. Pirelli is very active with the teams in testing. So we should wait to make a judgement on performance. The cars are getting heavier. That will have an effect especially in fast corners with high g-forces. The cars will generate downforce in a different way.

The goal is to have the cars emit less turbulence to the rear so that overtaking is easier. From what you see so far: Will Formula 1 achieve its goal?
Key: In the first race, we'll see how it works with overtaking behind. It's been a refreshing process, how the new cars and the rules came about. A lot of development, a lot of design work, a lot of CFD simulation went into it. Formula 1 and the FIA have worked very closely together to define rules, to create surfaces that emit less turbulence. It's not easy. As soon as you create a lot of downforce, there will always be turbulent air behind a car. Because you force the air to do incredible things. There are high forces at work. The new rules should make it easier to follow another car. I would be surprised if it was as hard as it is today. I'm sure it will be better. If that happens, and the teams are also closer together, that should produce better racing. That's what we need. We need more teams at the front. And cars that make it easier to get behind. That leads to more entertaining Sundays. But maybe the opposite will happen and the teams will be further apart.

The minimum weight increases to 790 kilograms. Is that the maximum a Formula 1 car should weigh?
Key: That's a tricky thing. Of course we want a lighter car because it's faster, it puts less stress on the tyres and it's more agile in the hands of the drivers. But we have a hybrid powertrain that adds a lot of weight. And for all the right reasons. It is a highly complex system that is developed every year. We are at a weight level that we didn't know with the old V8 engines. The safety precautions also play their part. They have been further developed for 2022. Reinforced constructions lead to more weight. But that is also absolutely the right way to go. The tyres are getting heavier. The weight should always be compatible with the regulations. If we simply lower the minimum weight, it would be incredibly difficult to achieve with these rules on the one hand and incredibly expensive and costly on the other. It is very expensive if you are over the weight and have to go down.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) - Edited for easier reading :)

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Lando + Ricciardo = Team Lando... oh no, wait a minute. that doesn't quite work :lol: Dando?

Seriously... great to see them getting on so well!

Let's hope it translates into a great Sochi result

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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:17
mwillems wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:03
SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 15:49


Very interesting quote… Up for interpretation what he means by “devoted more time to the actual car”… It doesn’t necessarily mean CFD / Wind Tunnel time… So it wouldn’t be surprising if an important portion of the staff have been focused on the MCL35M.

We also need to be careful with these comments, there could be a lot of misdirection in there too.
But he does clearly mean the balance between this year and next years development.
Everything I’ve read, including the quote from Key is that everything is going according to plan, the quote above states that the developments on the first half of the season where planned by Christmas…

The fact that it may appear that work on the MCL35M went deeper into the season than our competitors is anecdotal and I’m glad that the team didn’t react to what the rest of the grid may have stated in regards to their timing to switching development towards 2022.
That's fair enough but you said it's up in the air, I'm suggesting that it is not really up in the air as they are stating that they spent more time on this years car than others.

On whether that's a sensible choice? I don't think so, the work for next years car as akin to a good exit from a tight corner onto a long straight. If you don't get a good exit then you'll be slower all the way down the straight than you would have otherwise been.

It doesn't mean we will have a bad car or that I am saying we will, but I would have left this season to go and made sure that we have the best start possible in the new regs. Personally I would have stopped development very early in the season and had a skeleton team to move this car forward.

Under these new regulations, more teams are a threat than ever were before and nothing can be taken for granted I think.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:17
mwillems wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:03
SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 15:49


Very interesting quote… Up for interpretation what he means by “devoted more time to the actual car”… It doesn’t necessarily mean CFD / Wind Tunnel time… So it wouldn’t be surprising if an important portion of the staff have been focused on the MCL35M.

We also need to be careful with these comments, there could be a lot of misdirection in there too.
But he does clearly mean the balance between this year and next years development.
Everything I’ve read, including the quote from Key is that everything is going according to plan, the quote above states that the developments on the first half of the season where planned by Christmas…

The fact that it may appear that work on the MCL35M went deeper into the season than our competitors is anecdotal and I’m glad that the team didn’t react to what the rest of the grid may have stated in regards to their timing to switching development towards 2022.
Regarding going to plan, they don't know if the plan is right until they baseline against their competitors so that statement in itself is anecdotal.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 18:33
SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:17
mwillems wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 16:03


But he does clearly mean the balance between this year and next years development.
Everything I’ve read, including the quote from Key is that everything is going according to plan, the quote above states that the developments on the first half of the season where planned by Christmas…

The fact that it may appear that work on the MCL35M went deeper into the season than our competitors is anecdotal and I’m glad that the team didn’t react to what the rest of the grid may have stated in regards to their timing to switching development towards 2022.
That's fair enough but you said it's up in the air, I'm suggesting that it is not really up in the air as they are stating that they spent more time on this years car than others.

On whether that's a sensible choice? I don't think so, the work for next years car as akin to a good exit from a tight corner onto a long straight. If you don't get a good exit then you'll be slower all the way down the straight than you would have otherwise been.

It doesn't mean we will have a bad car or that I am saying we will, but I would have left this season to go and made sure that we have the best start possible in the new regs. Personally I would have stopped development very early in the season and had a skeleton team to move this car forward.

Under these new regulations, more teams are a threat than ever were before and nothing can be taken for granted I think.
I respect your point of view in regards to ditching this season in order to try and get the best potential start to the following one, it is a valid argument and one that other teams seem to have follow.

My take on the situation is the following:

A) During the exploration / concept phase of the 2022 car, there are no parts been manufactured, the amount of resources used in this phase is relatively low since it’s probably an small group that first needs to agree on the architecture of the car from a mechanical point of view, there isn’t a lot of aerodynamic work yet during this phase, you are looking at potential influence of big surfaces, but you can’t correlate them together without knowing what the architecture is… What is the core of your design team doing at this point? What is the manufacturing team doing at this point?… Those are working on parts for the 2021 car while they are waiting on parts for 2022 to work on.

B) From the article, I also take that most of the parts we’ve seeing coming for the MCL35M were signed off several months ago, which means that the critical resource for the 2022 car was working on next year’s car… While they had a team (mainly production and validation) still focus on the 2021 car.

C) Even though from a probability perspective, the more time you spend in the 2022 car should give you the biggest chance of success next year, the reality is that it may very well not be the case… The team that has apparently spent the most amount of time looking at 2022 is Haas, I don’t think that there is an expectation for them to win the WCC next year… Throwing away 2021 without assurance that it would spell success in 2022 is something that I wouldn’t advice… Furthermore and Key mentions this as well, we were competing in 2021 and it is important for the Team, the Sponsors and Investors that they have the best possible outcome out of the season, ultimately the results from last season and this one are opening up negotiations for better deals with Sponsors for the car, which creates financial stability, additional resources for investment and an stable platform to build upon… For a brand as McLarenF1 to continue to show progress was critical for their long term success (even if that implies not fighting at the front next season)… Maybe one of the reasons why Zak and Andreas keep talking about mounting a fight for WCC as early as 2023 (at which point the rest of the investments in the necessary hardware will be online)… I can see a different point of view from a Fan perspective, since those numbers (financial) behind the scene aren’t at the forefront of the decisions we would make.

D) I tend to believe that the “brain trust” inside the McLaren Team is quiet strong and that decisions such as this (extend focus in 2021 beyond what the competitors may be doing) wasn’t done on a wimp and backed up by sufficient data in regards to pro’s and con’s of doing so… They have a capable team in place and so far the progress showed during the last 3 seasons is proof of that… At this stage, I tend to support their decision based on what we are seeing on track and can only hope that the team will have a strong 2022 season also… Like I said before, I believe that there is a lot of validity to the counter argument, but I have no reasons (nor data) to think that the Team’s thought process and decision in regards to when and how much to focus on 2022 is the wrong one or suboptimal.

CjC
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Key said that most of the cars development was signed off before Christmas.

Wasn’t there a rule which stated that teams could only start designing their 2022 cars on the 1st of Jan 2021?

If this is the case are we to believe that the later editions to the cars development (I’m thinking the new brake cake tins, rear wing end fences and the new bargeboard package introduced at the Hungarian GP) was signed off after the 1st of Jan?

Also let’s compare Mclarens developments this season to other teams.
Merc have developed their car at least to the British GP and I think they had something a few races later.
Red Bull are currently still developing their car.
Mclarens last update were the new cake tins which were brought recently.
Ferrari stopped development after the French GP but are currently developing a new PU (slightly insignificant to the ‘22 regs)
Alpine do seem to have stopped development.
Alpha Tauri are just waiting for the new ‘22 designs off Newey (LOL🤣)
Stroll have been developing their car up until Austria.
Not sure on Williams- the fact that they are troubling the points would suggest they are still delevoping?
Not sure about Alfa Romeo either.
Haas haven’t developed a thing of this years car but as they don’t design anything themselves do that’s count?
Just a fan's point of view

geogate
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I think they really need to make Hay this weekend with a Ferrari starting at the back - if they can pull out a 20 point lead, its going to be uphill for Ferrari to take P3 even if they edge it for the remainder of the season

flmkane
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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genarro wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 09:26
flmkane wrote:
22 Sep 2021, 09:30
genarro wrote:
22 Sep 2021, 08:27


The matrix structure was implemented by him...not sure if it was his idea or Ron's
It was absolutely Ron's idea. He wanted to replace Newey's raw talent with sheer numbers in a way. This happened after Newey signed a contract with Jaguar when Ron tried to cut his salary. Ron hired Newey back but diluted his influence with the matrix and the associated mullahs.

Eventually, Newey was turfed out by Whitmarsh and the mullahs and Ron thought he was successful because they made good cars in 07 and 08
If you watched the film by THE RACE, Edd Straw said that the matrix structure was Whitmarsh's idea ant not Rons...anyhow i think that he is not missed in the team

Well I haven't seen the film, but I've read Newey's book and he says Ron was behind it.

Either way... Terrible decisions. Whitmarsh did do a great job with the composite production side of things to be fair. Was an excellent engineer at one point

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mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 19:05
I respect your point of view in regards to ditching this season in order to try and get the best potential start to the following one, it is a valid argument and one that other teams seem to have follow.

My take on the situation is the following:

A) During the exploration / concept phase of the 2022 car, there are no parts been manufactured, the amount of resources used in this phase is relatively low since it’s probably an small group that first needs to agree on the architecture of the car from a mechanical point of view, there isn’t a lot of aerodynamic work yet during this phase, you are looking at potential influence of big surfaces, but you can’t correlate them together without knowing what the architecture is… What is the core of your design team doing at this point? What is the manufacturing team doing at this point?… Those are working on parts for the 2021 car while they are waiting on parts for 2022 to work on.

B) From the article, I also take that most of the parts we’ve seeing coming for the MCL35M were signed off several months ago, which means that the critical resource for the 2022 car was working on next year’s car… While they had a team (mainly production and validation) still focus on the 2021 car.

C) Even though from a probability perspective, the more time you spend in the 2022 car should give you the biggest chance of success next year, the reality is that it may very well not be the case… The team that has apparently spent the most amount of time looking at 2022 is Haas, I don’t think that there is an expectation for them to win the WCC next year… Throwing away 2021 without assurance that it would spell success in 2022 is something that I wouldn’t advice… Furthermore and Key mentions this as well, we were competing in 2021 and it is important for the Team, the Sponsors and Investors that they have the best possible outcome out of the season, ultimately the results from last season and this one are opening up negotiations for better deals with Sponsors for the car, which creates financial stability, additional resources for investment and an stable platform to build upon… For a brand as McLarenF1 to continue to show progress was critical for their long term success (even if that implies not fighting at the front next season)… Maybe one of the reasons why Zak and Andreas keep talking about mounting a fight for WCC as early as 2023 (at which point the rest of the investments in the necessary hardware will be online)… I can see a different point of view from a Fan perspective, since those numbers (financial) behind the scene aren’t at the forefront of the decisions we would make.

D) I tend to believe that the “brain trust” inside the McLaren Team is quiet strong and that decisions such as this (extend focus in 2021 beyond what the competitors may be doing) wasn’t done on a wimp and backed up by sufficient data in regards to pro’s and con’s of doing so… They have a capable team in place and so far the progress showed during the last 3 seasons is proof of that… At this stage, I tend to support their decision based on what we are seeing on track and can only hope that the team will have a strong 2022 season also… Like I said before, I believe that there is a lot of validity to the counter argument, but I have no reasons (nor data) to think that the Team’s thought process and decision in regards to when and how much to focus on 2022 is the wrong one or suboptimal.
Again I do fully respect your opinion but personally hold differently.

Regarding A) and B) We know from the teams statements running up to Silverstone and Hungary and from this one that design continued well after the January sign off and design carried on up until the summer, albeit in a reducing amount

Regarding C, as you acknowledge the probability is that the more time we spend on the 22 car the better 22 might be. But then it goes on to only make a comparison between 21 and 22. But the comparison should be between 22 and the seasons afterwards, versus the rewards of 21. Because what we do for the 22 car is the platform for everything afterwards too. 2021 is a standalone year now and will not benefit 2022.

We were never going to finish lower than 4th this year, it was evident after a few races, so the team have gone all in on the fight with Ferrari for 3rd. I cannot get on board with that. On a Risk reward for this year, there was little risk and little reward for stopping or continuing development, when looking at the outcome of the '21 championship. There is however a bigger risk and reward to the outcome of 22 and the seasons afterwards.

Was it worth sacrificing work on the 22 car to get 3rd instead of 4th? I don't think so. And to use your own logic, there is no assurance of getting 3rd and that the time spent on the 21 car had any benefit at all. If we finish 4th this year, then you'd say it was a waste of resources. You cannot argue that the work on next years car is ever going to be a waste of resources.

Ferrari know that next year is when they need to beat us, and every year after it. The team, Sainz and Leclerc have said that this year is not important to them like other seasons were - something they started saying when they realised it was either 3rd or 4th. So forget HAAS, we are up against Ferrari, Merc and RB and we have the added threat of Renault, Aston Martin, Alpha Tauri and I think Williams too.

We are going to get to '22 and, to quote some gentleman from a fine movie, we may find that "this sh*t just got real" :)
Obviously I don't know what will happen in '22, I just wanted to end that with a quote from Bad Boys 2. :mrgreen:
Last edited by mwillems on 24 Sep 2021, 09:09, edited 2 times in total.
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