Catastrophic Global Cooling

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Andres125sx
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by Andres125sx » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:37 am

Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:16 am
In this argument, I'm not sure that I would trust any data that I havent collected myself.

Historical data has been altered. Current data is altered in real time.

If it was truly catastrophic, there would be zero need nor enormous money invested in altering these measurements.

But yet, I have read dozens of articles about proven alterations, so I'm very skeptical.

Agree, that´s the reason I´ve posted my first hand experience. You can ask any spaniard about floodings in Spain 30 year ago. They simply didn´t exist or were an sporadic phenomenom wich happened each 5 years maybe. Nowadays there are 5 per year.

Same for farmers, when some farmers are forced to change their crops with different ones after decades doing the same, you know something is going wrong. That´s not a report from politics, that´s first hand experience from someone who was forced to change his lifestyle

I know in some other parts of the globe where CC is not affecting weather yet this might sound alarmist or exagerated, but it´s reality, not any biased report from any part, this is unquestionable first hand experience even if some people ignore it...
Last edited by Andres125sx on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

hollus
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by hollus » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:39 am

Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:16 am
In this argument, I'm not sure that I would trust any data that I havent collected myself.
Well, since I don’t think you are about to go collecting data on a global scale for the las 100 or even 10 years, this is a bit of a hard stop for forming opinion, isn’t it?
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

strad
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by strad » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:21 pm

Andres; as I have often said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I only wish you would extend the same courtesy to me. I suggest this topic be closed for the same reason the one on global warming was.
No good can come from this discussion. No one is going have their minds changed and any information is readily available to anyone undecided.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
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DChemTech
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by DChemTech » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:35 pm

Reality is not an opinion.

I'm always amazed by how post-modernistic conservatives become when reality is not in their favour.

But yeah, I do agree on closing the topic.

Greg Locock
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by Greg Locock » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:47 am

"So what happened around 2000? Did it stay dry for 5 years in a row? That seems pretty problematic -"

Almost as problematic as people who can't read graphs. Those years are marked with an x and the legend says x- no data.

So I think i'll take your fearsome analysis with a large grain of salt.

DChemTech
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by DChemTech » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:06 am

Greg Locock wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:47 am
"So what happened around 2000? Did it stay dry for 5 years in a row? That seems pretty problematic -"

Almost as problematic as people who can't read graphs. Those years are marked with an x and the legend says x- no data.

So I think i'll take your fearsome analysis with a large grain of salt.
Well apologies for missing that, the legend is quite small on my phone screen, but yeah it was careless of me - the complete absence of rainfall those years didn't seem realistic indeed, and I expected the data was indeed missing or removed because of an error, but missed the legend saying so. Missing that legend was an honest mistake though. Acting like some local graph precipitation graph overthrows 40 years worth of global science is not, in my view. To use my missing a legend as an excuse to ignore all of that a bit an exaggeration, isn't it?

Now I do agree with you that data is preferable over pictures. Nevertheless, average rainfall data does not very well convey the intensity of individual events - it may still be that there's an equal amount of rain, but more intense episodes of it. Also, as Henry justly notes, local rainfall is strongly affected by local human activities, as well as local geography. Hence, local precipitation is a poor proxy for climate change - locally, it may be that climate change results in reduced precipitation too (which was the point I wanted to get across, regardless of whether it applies to your valley, but which I admittedly screewd up in execution).

For the Netherlands, I can produce a graph showing the rainfall here does rise if so desired, but if we're talking about support for climate change, I think the temperature is a more instructive parameter.

hollus
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Re: Catastrophic Global Cooling

Post by hollus » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:58 am

Nothing but animosity here. Since the topic is mostly politics, it was actually the official thing to do. Naive of me to imagine a rich and nuanced discussion. Mea culpa. Closed now.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.