Battery pack question.

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AngusF1
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by AngusF1 » Tue May 01, 2018 12:46 pm

One other consideration: How much heat will these batteries produce when you charge them, and how will you get rid of the heat?

Andres125sx
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Andres125sx » Tue May 01, 2018 4:04 pm

Lithium batteries should never get warm while charging. If they do that´s a shympthom of too high charging rate

Niquel batteries get warm, but nothing serious to consider how to get rid of that heat

About lead-acid, I think they shouldn´t get warm either, but not sure

Manoah2u
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Manoah2u » Tue May 01, 2018 5:41 pm

AngusF1 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 12:46 pm
One other consideration: How much heat will these batteries produce when you charge them, and how will you get rid of the heat?
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:04 pm
Lithium batteries should never get warm while charging. If they do that´s a shympthom of too high charging rate

Niquel batteries get warm, but nothing serious to consider how to get rid of that heat

About lead-acid, I think they shouldn´t get warm either, but not sure
If lithium-ion (18650) batteries get warm, they're defective. we're offcourse talking about getting hot. getting warm is not really of any concideration. compare it to your laptop adaptor, it's perfectly normal that it generates warmth, but if it really gets hot, then something's wrong and you should replace it. Let it be clear that i'm not comparing lithium-ion battery warmth to that of a laptop adapter, it's merely an example.

as long as the batteries produce amps that are correct for it, taking 'wear' or 'aging' into concideration, and voltage that are within it's operating window, it really won't get warm/hot. that's why you should monitor the voltage and amps when testing the batteries, and check it now and then. for safety measures though, it's never unwise to mount temperature meters, they are (relatively) cheap and have built-in fuses and essentially do the same job as a BMS.

as andres says, niquel does tend to get 'warmish' and indeed, not concidered 'heat'.

as for lead-acid, same story, heat (hot) damages the plates. they need to be filled regularly to keep functioning properly. if not maintained or get properly used, they get damaged, and thus can get hot. it's for example absolutely immediately causing permanent damage to the battery (lead-acid) if fully discharged (depleted). worse even, it's potentially dangerous and not just for the battery itself, not just enlarging the chances of leaking, fires, etc. but it can actually damage your car's electrical system. faulty wiring (for example a worn, rusty ground wire) in itself vise versa can damage the battery, aswell as the entire car's electrical system. and as such, cause your car to function incorrect.

it's funny how replacing an 'ailing' battery, and a bad ground cable can shockingly improve your car's working condition. not just power and efficiency, but also the entire electrical system and thus cooling, heating, radio, radio signal, lighting, etc. etc. offcourse makes ,brands, age and 'generations' make difference though. 2015+ cars obviously have 'more advanced' technology than a car from 1982. but at the same time, the basic remains the same; your 2015 car CAN get rusty ground cables connected to the battery (even if it theoretically shouldn't) and if it does, it WILL perform FAR from optimal or like it should.

something simple as a badly wired (aftermarket) car radio or a worn/stuck door (trunk) switch can cause the battery to get drained. your battery thus can get depleted in just a week (imagine you connect the mp3 radio you got for a steal at black friday, in winter, on a rainy day, you can't make out too much of the wiring diagram but you seem to have it connected right as everything is working right though you might get some interference through the radio wire, and you decide to leave it as it is being either suspicious that you might did something wrong or you are clueless about it, and overnight you get sick as you just has catched a cold. you stay in bed and all the while your badly wired radio drains the battery). you get better, turn ignition - dead. ouch. that 10 bucks pioneer mp3 radio from black friday has now actually damaged your battery, without you even realizing it.

that's actually how fast it can go. for real.

now offcourse, battery technology has greatly improved and there are lead-acid batteries that are A) maintainance-free and B) have built-in protection that if it gets below a certain amount of volts, it has a 'fuse' that simply cuts the current off so it can't be drained further. doesn't mean though your or my car actually has that battery.

just pointing it out though.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Andres125sx
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Andres125sx » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:20 pm

Any update Manoa2u?

Brake Horse Power
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Brake Horse Power » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:03 am

If you go to the website of Victron energy you will find all the components you need suitable for the job. Batteries, BMS, safety contractors etc

Rodak
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Rodak » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:01 pm

Interesting to read about the Spanish law(s) regards solar cells and energy limits. Where I live in the States (Washington) the power companies are REQUIRED by law to buy any excess electricity produced by solar cells, not tax you. So if you have panels producing 1kw and you aren't using any of it the power company has to buy that excess and pay you consumer rates for it. That makes solar panels more economic, as one can feed electricity to the grid during the day, get paid for it, then use grid electricity at night; it might be possible to drive energy cost to zero doing this. Why wouldn't Spain be interested in systems that potentially reduce demands on power generators? It's certainly possible to generate less electricity from dams and balance demand/production as required when solar is off at night. We are seeing much more wind turbine generation here also. One final tiny gripe; 1 kw for 12 hours is 12 kwh, not 12 kw. Kilowatts is the rate, kilowatt-hours is the volume. Sorry!

Manoah2u
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Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Manoah2u » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:44 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:20 pm
Any update Manoa2u?
To be honest i'm really busy in buying a house in Spain, got my NIE number now,
and am on the point of making a higher bid on a house i've already bidded on but the owner decided was too low.

when the house is aquired, i'm gonna start aquiring the solar panels and batteries to have the house off-grid ready and do some tests and when satisfied, i'm gonna go off-grid.

Buying a house in Calpe btw, love that place. I'm hoping to have things sorted out by the end of next year so i can permanently move to Spain by the end of 2020 or start of 2021, including starting my own business. Pretty excited to be honest!
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
386
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Manoah2u » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 pm

Rodak wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:01 pm
Why wouldn't Spain be interested in systems that potentially reduce demands on power generators?
As far as I have come to understand, Spain is a little 'behind' in power alternatives not the least because of the way the (power) companies operate, state money involved, and deals with foreign suppliers, and in the end already made investments. That said, i'm saying that as a foreigner coming across a variety of sources, but not first-hand experience, so i'd say i'm making a more or less educated guess rather than anything.

There are some developments planned though, and i'm pretty sure the near future will open up (many) alternatives.

People have a tendency to look at things and quickly call things 'moving slowly' for some reason, but i think people many times miss the bigger picture, and if i look at the bigger picture, then i think there's certainly reason why there's not a 'big step' made (yet). For example, despite all the 'green energy' nonsense, windmill park screaming and environment mafia boasting about, the fact is, here in the NL's, there are MANY coal plants still providing energy, faulty nuclear plants, etc. Which in the end has caused a lot of investment and thus money to disappear into a system or situation that really isn't more economic or ecologic than what was already in place.

Look at it like this: 'lets plant windmill turbines to provide energy and batteries to store energy, YAY, eco!'
result: mechanics die due to fires during maintainance, fall from great hight to keep things cheap, complete ecology of the local fauna is destroyed and or permanently damaged due to the windmills causing gigantic amounts of insects to perish aswell as birds that perish due to impact against or getting hit by the blades, regular equipment failure causing no power and high maintainance cost, power cable problems, the horizon screwed over, depletion of natural resources to get as cheap as possible battery production, etc. etc. because somebody in an article said 'this is ecologically sound and what we have now are killing our puppies and grandchildren'

in other words, there's a lot of bloated ideas around and it seems like 'spain' is taking its time and not simply jumping and falling in every con story that is presented to them. i have no belief in the idea that spain is really technologically behind as that would be ignoring everything.

From what i 'feel' until now, is that i'd rather look at it like this: while the world is screaming 'new improved Audi A4 with -insert here- technology is here! BUY!' spain is using the very good Audi A4 that came a season or 2 back out, without getting worried about bloated salesmen stories.

But as i have the tendency of writing a long page over something small, i'll stop now :lol:
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Andres125sx » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:55 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:44 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:20 pm
Any update Manoa2u?
To be honest i'm really busy in buying a house in Spain, got my NIE number now,
and am on the point of making a higher bid on a house i've already bidded on but the owner decided was too low.

when the house is aquired, i'm gonna start aquiring the solar panels and batteries to have the house off-grid ready and do some tests and when satisfied, i'm gonna go off-grid.

Buying a house in Calpe btw, love that place. I'm hoping to have things sorted out by the end of next year so i can permanently move to Spain by the end of 2020 or start of 2021, including starting my own business. Pretty excited to be honest!
Calpe? My father was there two weeks ago for a short trip he had to delay due to the floodings, nice place indeed

Good luck with that bid!

Andres125sx
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Andres125sx » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:16 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 pm
Rodak wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:01 pm
Why wouldn't Spain be interested in systems that potentially reduce demands on power generators?
As far as I have come to understand, Spain is a little 'behind' in power alternatives not the least because of the way the (power) companies operate, state money involved, and deals with foreign suppliers, and in the end already made investments. That said, i'm saying that as a foreigner coming across a variety of sources, but not first-hand experience, so i'd say i'm making a more or less educated guess rather than anything.

There are some developments planned though, and i'm pretty sure the near future will open up (many) alternatives.

People have a tendency to look at things and quickly call things 'moving slowly' for some reason, but i think people many times miss the bigger picture, and if i look at the bigger picture, then i think there's certainly reason why there's not a 'big step' made (yet). For example, despite all the 'green energy' nonsense, windmill park screaming and environment mafia boasting about, the fact is, here in the NL's, there are MANY coal plants still providing energy, faulty nuclear plants, etc. Which in the end has caused a lot of investment and thus money to disappear into a system or situation that really isn't more economic or ecologic than what was already in place.

Look at it like this: 'lets plant windmill turbines to provide energy and batteries to store energy, YAY, eco!'
result: mechanics die due to fires during maintainance, fall from great hight to keep things cheap, complete ecology of the local fauna is destroyed and or permanently damaged due to the windmills causing gigantic amounts of insects to perish aswell as birds that perish due to impact against or getting hit by the blades, regular equipment failure causing no power and high maintainance cost, power cable problems, the horizon screwed over, depletion of natural resources to get as cheap as possible battery production, etc. etc. because somebody in an article said 'this is ecologically sound and what we have now are killing our puppies and grandchildren'

in other words, there's a lot of bloated ideas around and it seems like 'spain' is taking its time and not simply jumping and falling in every con story that is presented to them. i have no belief in the idea that spain is really technologically behind as that would be ignoring everything.

From what i 'feel' until now, is that i'd rather look at it like this: while the world is screaming 'new improved Audi A4 with -insert here- technology is here! BUY!' spain is using the very good Audi A4 that came a season or 2 back out, without getting worried about bloated salesmen stories.

But as i have the tendency of writing a long page over something small, i'll stop now :lol:

Love your optimistic point of view :D


I´m more inclined to a more depresive view. Many former presidents and ministers, from both parties (PP and Psoe) who have govern in past 40 years, are now part of some different electrical companies. No need to explain any further I guess :roll: :-#

Yesterday I had a meeting with an arquitect to see their job (I´m also in a search to buy a home, or probably build it) and I was asking them about the added cost to make a house passive. During the talk I told her I can´t understand the reason it´s not mandatory yet to build any new building complying with PassiveHouse standards (or similar) or at least A category. His reply was straightforward, passive houses do not consume energy so they´re not interesting for people in power. It was not surprising to me, just a confirmation about my pesimist toughts

But we citizens can´t enter Madrid if our car is old because of pollution, when most part of pollution comes from heating systems wich could be drastically reduced with more severe laws about isolation in buildings... what a bunch of mo****f***ers ](*,)

Manoah2u
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:27 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:44 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:20 pm
Any update Manoa2u?
To be honest i'm really busy in buying a house in Spain, got my NIE number now,
and am on the point of making a higher bid on a house i've already bidded on but the owner decided was too low.

when the house is aquired, i'm gonna start aquiring the solar panels and batteries to have the house off-grid ready and do some tests and when satisfied, i'm gonna go off-grid.

Buying a house in Calpe btw, love that place. I'm hoping to have things sorted out by the end of next year so i can permanently move to Spain by the end of 2020 or start of 2021, including starting my own business. Pretty excited to be honest!
Calpe? My father was there two weeks ago for a short trip he had to delay due to the floodings, nice place indeed

Good luck with that bid!
Cool, i think the one i'm bidding on is going to be the one i'm buying either way, but there's more to choose from. It's in the Maryvilla area, with unobstructed views to the mediteranean sea and the Peñon de Ifach and mountain views around. Biggest thing offcourse after aquiring the house is work, and though i've got several options, i'm hoping my own business will start rolling well enough to pay the wages. Since i'd like to have monthly costs as low as possible, i'm intending to have the house as efficient as possible and as low as energy consumption as possible with the intent of being as much self-maintaining as possible. hence solar panels, and intending to have a water pit/well too. the more i can do without government cost, the better.
And because of the amount of sun in that area, i think a good set of powerful solar panels combined with a decent battery system will do wonders.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
386
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:34 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:16 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 pm
Rodak wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:01 pm
Why wouldn't Spain be interested in systems that potentially reduce demands on power generators?
As far as I have come to understand, Spain is a little 'behind' in power alternatives not the least because of the way the (power) companies operate, state money involved, and deals with foreign suppliers, and in the end already made investments. That said, i'm saying that as a foreigner coming across a variety of sources, but not first-hand experience, so i'd say i'm making a more or less educated guess rather than anything.

There are some developments planned though, and i'm pretty sure the near future will open up (many) alternatives.

People have a tendency to look at things and quickly call things 'moving slowly' for some reason, but i think people many times miss the bigger picture, and if i look at the bigger picture, then i think there's certainly reason why there's not a 'big step' made (yet). For example, despite all the 'green energy' nonsense, windmill park screaming and environment mafia boasting about, the fact is, here in the NL's, there are MANY coal plants still providing energy, faulty nuclear plants, etc. Which in the end has caused a lot of investment and thus money to disappear into a system or situation that really isn't more economic or ecologic than what was already in place.

Look at it like this: 'lets plant windmill turbines to provide energy and batteries to store energy, YAY, eco!'
result: mechanics die due to fires during maintainance, fall from great hight to keep things cheap, complete ecology of the local fauna is destroyed and or permanently damaged due to the windmills causing gigantic amounts of insects to perish aswell as birds that perish due to impact against or getting hit by the blades, regular equipment failure causing no power and high maintainance cost, power cable problems, the horizon screwed over, depletion of natural resources to get as cheap as possible battery production, etc. etc. because somebody in an article said 'this is ecologically sound and what we have now are killing our puppies and grandchildren'

in other words, there's a lot of bloated ideas around and it seems like 'spain' is taking its time and not simply jumping and falling in every con story that is presented to them. i have no belief in the idea that spain is really technologically behind as that would be ignoring everything.

From what i 'feel' until now, is that i'd rather look at it like this: while the world is screaming 'new improved Audi A4 with -insert here- technology is here! BUY!' spain is using the very good Audi A4 that came a season or 2 back out, without getting worried about bloated salesmen stories.

But as i have the tendency of writing a long page over something small, i'll stop now :lol:

Love your optimistic point of view :D


I´m more inclined to a more depresive view. Many former presidents and ministers, from both parties (PP and Psoe) who have govern in past 40 years, are now part of some different electrical companies. No need to explain any further I guess :roll: :-#

Yesterday I had a meeting with an arquitect to see their job (I´m also in a search to buy a home, or probably build it) and I was asking them about the added cost to make a house passive. During the talk I told her I can´t understand the reason it´s not mandatory yet to build any new building complying with PassiveHouse standards (or similar) or at least A category. His reply was straightforward, passive houses do not consume energy so they´re not interesting for people in power. It was not surprising to me, just a confirmation about my pesimist toughts

But we citizens can´t enter Madrid if our car is old because of pollution, when most part of pollution comes from heating systems wich could be drastically reduced with more severe laws about isolation in buildings... what a bunch of mo****f***ers ](*,)
yeah politics, it is what it is. here in the NL's its worse. you won't believe the trouble we're having here especially now with nitrogen problem here. yeah, you read that right. we have farmers rebelling against the government now, it's a mess.

i'm not blind to the stuff you're saying though. I understand your view is 'pessimistic'. I really do, and to a extent/degree, i agree with you. But i also realise there are things that won't 'really' change, and that said, i think my future and family's future here - in the netherlands - is far more pessimistic, so i've decided to go for a better living environment, including that of my family especially my mother who needs warmer climate conditions for her health.

Say, i've met some people from Madrid that stay in Calpe regularly. Your father doesn't actually have owned/run a restaurant in Calpe, did he?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Andres125sx
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:15 am
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Andres125sx » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:06 am

If your mother need a warmer place, Calpe surely is a good choice

No my father is a retired pharmacist, sorry but no restaurant to invite you :mrgreen: but you will have zero problems with food around there, that´s sure =P~

Manoah2u
386
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Battery pack question.

Post by Manoah2u » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:21 pm

Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:06 am
If your mother need a warmer place, Calpe surely is a good choice

No my father is a retired pharmacist, sorry but no restaurant to invite you :mrgreen: but you will have zero problems with food around there, that´s sure =P~
lol, i just knew a family from madrid whose dad used to have a restaurant in calpe, he's retired too. was wondering if by total accident it was you :lol:

yeah, it's a gem to live.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.