Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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adrianjordan
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:05 pm
TAG wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:58 pm
This is what it's about.


This is how it starts;
https://youtu.be/xSdG8VDZWNA


...and this is how it finishes.
https://youtu.be/XKQqgVlk0NQ


So tell me again how being stopped for a tail light being out should lead to being shot in the back. Not only did this cop falcify the police report saying that the man tried to wrestle with him and take his tazer but then he took his tazer and planted it next to the body. This cope said "he feared for his life" The police officer was found not guilty. :)

This isn't the exception, it's the rule. A lot of people in America don't like having their nose rubbed in it. The same way a lot of people in America didn't like having blacks use the same bathrooms, or having blacks use the same water fountains. Americans didn't like MLK in the 60's, they didn't like Rosa Park protesting on the bus, they didn't like having people block their bridge in Selma Alabama.

They don't like football players taking the knee today.
Agree entirely, the 1 thing id like to know is, why the hell would you make a run for it ? Why would anyone ever run from a policeman in any country ?!
It's self perpetuating. Black men are more likely to experience violence from police, therefore they are more likely to run from them in fear of that violence, which in turn makes them more likely to experience the very violence they were afraid of.

Or the car was stolen, or he had drugs in it or something else. Not saying he did, but even IF he had, none of those would justify being shot at all, let alone killed.

I know a number of firearms officers here in the UK and the only reason they would discharge their weapon was if they had a reasonable belief that their own, their colleagues' or a member of the public's life was under threat if they didn't.

I can't imagine what it must be like to live in a country where gun crime is as high as it is in the USA.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

George-Jung
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Obviously there is a lot of ignorance.

If black men are more likely to commit a crime- than obviously it is more likely that you get shot?

How much percentage of those 9 black men that get shot are innocent?

I understand that you do not like the numbers that I presented in my previous post, but numbers don’t lie.. sorry.

dans79
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:47 pm
As a white, male, blonde, blue eyed, straight, living in The Netherlands and with liberal parents I really can't imagine how it would be to be a black American. I have friends who are, their stories frighten me and makes me sad and angry.
So may Europeans have no idea whats its like here, yet so many think they know it all. Since you have mentioned liberal several times, I bet you have liberal American friends and that's part of why i think you have a skewed view of this country. A lot of liberals in this country paint all minorities as victims not just people of black decent.

I have two black neighbors and another that is hispanic. Everyone likes and gets along well with them, you know who most people dislike, the white hicks down the street who are always loud and obnoxious. Most of the minorities my wife and I know (she knows even more than me as her peer group is more diverse) have a distaste for what black live mater and similar organizations have become. To some I know it's offensive, because they don't define themselves by their skin color or ethnicity, and they really don't like it when other do because it aligns with their social and political beliefs.

The real issue is poverty, and that with poverty usually comes an increased crime rate, and to a lesser extent drug abuse rate. Its the same way in the EU, and every other part of the world. The only difference is what group is the impoverished one. It's not even a modern issue, you can see the trend all the way back to the beginning of written history.

Jolle
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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It's not about who or which group does more then that group. It's about that there are so many incidents where there was excessive police violence or/and shots fired/people killed when there was no reason for it and no consequences for the officers who were involved.

It's not about criminals, not about murder rates, not about gang crime and not about statistics.

Its about people who are driving home from work and get shot by the police or people who walk home from their parked car and get shot. About moms who got dragged out of the car driving her kids home from school.

The US is the only democracy where you can get shot by the police while you do everything they say.

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turbof1
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Ehh, we are not against the discussion,
but other than one F1 driver taking or not taking a knee during the anthem, what is the connection of it to F1? Moved to off topic chat.

Goes without saying: Handle this kind of discussion with care and respect, people.
#AeroFrodo

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The_table
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:49 pm
It's not about who or which group does more then that group. It's about that there are so many incidents where there was excessive police violence or/and shots fired/people killed when there was no reason for it and no consequences for the officers who were involved.
It's not about criminals, not about murder rates, not about gang crime and not about statistics.
Its about people who are driving home from work and get shot by the police or people who walk home from their parked car and get shot. About moms who got dragged out of the car driving her kids home from school.
The US is the only democracy where you can get shot by the police while you do everything they say.
Exactly, this is more about police being badly trained than anything (on average it takes 19 weeks to become a cop in the us...)
You can find plenty of videos of white people being shot in equally stupid ways than black people so the problem is not really racial. (This is not exactly scientific but look on YouTube for white people getting shot and you'll see similar situations as the one mentioned above.)
(I recall an old white dude getting shot because a cop taught his cane was a rifle...)

You can also see that cops in the US almost always escalate situations by yelling like mad and pulling guns.
When you yell at people they tend to shut down and not respond at all especially when they receive conflicting instructions as they often do by cops.

I have a dumb question, do all Gp's play their national anthem?

Ps: The issue is not poverty, it's poor and rich being very close together, you are not going to rob your neighbor because you know he's as poor as you, you are going to rob the rich lady going to the shops since that puts food on your table for a month... (Do rich people even go to the shops?)

Ps: Let's not lynch George-Jung, those statistics are certainly part of the puzzle.

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TAG
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:05 pm
Agree entirely, the 1 thing id like to know is, why the hell would you make a run for it ? Why would anyone ever run from a policeman in any country ?!
Because there's systemic mistrust of the police in America by black. Chicken and egg thing. There are two problems going on.

1 is that there's a fraternal order of protections, where cops will cover the crimes of other cops.
2 the systems trains cops to see their jobs as an us against them thing, there is exponentially more time given to cops as to how to shoot various weapons than there is as to how to diffuse dangerous situations or dealing with people mentally impaired.

Here's some of this systemic issue.

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SteveRacer
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Image

here are some statistics

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TAG
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Being black in America. This is why they'd rather run away from the cops, because there are some really racist ones out there and a lot of others that are more than willing to cover up for them. @George-Jung would rather you not watch this though.

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Jolle
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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The_table wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:34 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:49 pm
It's not about who or which group does more then that group. It's about that there are so many incidents where there was excessive police violence or/and shots fired/people killed when there was no reason for it and no consequences for the officers who were involved.
It's not about criminals, not about murder rates, not about gang crime and not about statistics.
Its about people who are driving home from work and get shot by the police or people who walk home from their parked car and get shot. About moms who got dragged out of the car driving her kids home from school.
The US is the only democracy where you can get shot by the police while you do everything they say.
Exactly, this is more about police being badly trained than anything (on average it takes 19 weeks to become a cop in the us...)
You can find plenty of videos of white people being shot in equally stupid ways than black people so the problem is not really racial. (This is not exactly scientific but look on YouTube for white people getting shot and you'll see similar situations as the one mentioned above.)
(I recall an old white dude getting shot because a cop taught his cane was a rifle...)

You can also see that cops in the US almost always escalate situations by yelling like mad and pulling guns.
When you yell at people they tend to shut down and not respond at all especially when they receive conflicting instructions as they often do by cops.

I have a dumb question, do all Gp's play their national anthem?

Ps: The issue is not poverty, it's poor and rich being very close together, you are not going to rob your neighbor because you know he's as poor as you, you are going to rob the rich lady going to the shops since that puts food on your table for a month... (Do rich people even go to the shops?)

Ps: Let's not lynch George-Jung, those statistics are certainly part of the puzzle.
Yes, they play the national anthem before every GP and since recently the drivers all have to line up at the head of the field.

In my view it's a combination of several circumstances why this is happening in the US. Police training (or the lack off) is one of them, the love of the gun another.

In Europe, as a police man you be pretty sure that the car you just pulled over hasn't got a gun in it or if you approach someone, they won't have guns. it must feel as a constant threat. This of course also leads (with the lack of good eduction) that it will attract a certain kind of people to be a cop.

So, a lot of angst from both sides and before you know it you're in downward spiral.

As part of my job (adviser of social systems in disadvantaged erea's) I speak with a lot of people effectes from both sides (although in Europe) and of course we discuss the US system and what happens there a lot. The general consensus of dutch police is that they wouldn't be a cop in the US.

The Netherlands are of course a lot smaller (around 17 million people) but the latest numbers of people shot dead by the police per year: 3
Last edited by Jolle on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dans79
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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TAG
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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George-Jung wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:36 pm
Obviously there is a lot of ignorance.
I understand that you do not like the numbers that I presented in my previous post, but numbers don’t lie.. sorry.
Indeed there is ignorance, you don't read, too busy making excuses to suit your narrative. :P

Last edited by TAG on Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TAG
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:53 pm
As part of my job (adviser of social systems in disadvantaged erea's) I speak with a lot of people effectes from both sides (although in Europe) and of course we discuss the US system and what happens there a lot. The general consensus of dutch police is that they wouldn't be a cop in the US.
In the united states they specifically hire cops that aren't the best of the best. The "philosophy"around that is that if you hire someone that's too smart they'll get bored with the job after they realize what it is, and they won't stay long. So they hire goons and a lot of goons are attracted to the job, it's a recipe for disaster.

Read this, lawsuit brought by a person in Conneticut who was not hired as a police officer despite him scoring much highter on the testing than those hired for the job.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barr ... y?id=95836
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Jolle
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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TAG wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:03 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:53 pm
As part of my job (adviser of social systems in disadvantaged erea's) I speak with a lot of people effectes from both sides (although in Europe) and of course we discuss the US system and what happens there a lot. The general consensus of dutch police is that they wouldn't be a cop in the US.
In the united states they specifically hire cops that aren't the best of the best. The "philosophy"around that is that if you hire someone that's too smart they'll get bored with the job after they realize what it is, and they won't stay long. So they hire goons and a lot of goons are attracted to the job, it's a recipe for disaster.

Read this, lawsuit brought by a person in Conneticut who was not hired as a police officer despite him scoring much highter on the testing than those hired for the job.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barr ... y?id=95836
Thnx.

You would almost hope that when the anthem begins tomorrow, Hamilton goed down on his knee, directly followed by all drivers and the whole F1 management.

but they probably won't dare.

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The_table
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Re: Lewis Hamilton - UK press suggest he might take a knee in USA

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not gonna lie, i was thinking that :)