Material Question (from Redbull video )

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etusch
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Material Question (from Redbull video )

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Hi. I want to learn the material in this video which is shaped by CNC for producing redbull car's noose. At 50 sec they are sticking each other then machining for noose mould.


https://youtu.be/-t6cxIeCIjE

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jjn9128
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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It will be a medium/high density tooling board.
e.g. http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/patt ... ling-board

What surprises me is that they use a positive rather than negative mould for something as aero critical as the nose tip.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Mudflap
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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I think that was just for the impact test.
Aero surfaces are always tooled faces.

I don't know if they are trying to imply that they manufacture their own gears but I'm pretty sure they buy them from Xtrac.
How much TQ does it make though?

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jjn9128
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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Why would they make a separate mould just for impact testing? If it's going to be produced for racing - there are at least 4 noses going to track, so at least 5 uses for the mould. I suppose to get the carbon right into the tip for something as sharp as that spec of nose cone would be tricky.

I thought the last team x-trac produced gearboxes for was manor?
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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etusch
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:42 am
Why would they make a separate mould just for impact testing? If it's going to be produced for racing - there are at least 4 noses going to track, so at least 5 uses for the mould. I suppose to get the carbon right into the tip for something as sharp as that spec of nose cone would be tricky.

I thought the last team x-trac produced gearboxes for was manor?
It's logical. I don't know how they're working . I am trying to do something with carbon fiber and mould making materials are more expensive than carbon fiber itself. If it's not serial production they can choose this way at least for trial designs.

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Mudflap
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:42 am
Why would they make a separate mould just for impact testing? If it's going to be produced for racing - there are at least 4 noses going to track, so at least 5 uses for the mould. I suppose to get the carbon right into the tip for something as sharp as that spec of nose cone would be tricky.

I thought the last team x-trac produced gearboxes for was manor?
That's a foam 'soft tool' used for rapid prototyping - the racing parts are made with proper graphite, ceramic or metal tools.

X trac currently supplies gears only, not entire gearboxes. Teams design their own casings, shafts and bearings.
How much TQ does it make though?

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jz11
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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etusch wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:39 pm
It's logical. I don't know how they're working . I am trying to do something with carbon fiber and mould making materials are more expensive than carbon fiber itself. If it's not serial production they can choose this way at least for trial designs.
I don't know which resin system you're using, probably rtc wet layup, if so, then your mould materials (especially if you're just experimenting) are basically anything, wood, plywood, mdf, foam board, etc, use automotive soft (polyester) bondo to do final shaping, spray some 2k primer on it, sand it and then spray 2 component automotive clear coat, wet sand, buff, wax and you're ready to make your moulds for parts, clear coat is necessary, because the vynil or polyester gelcoat that you'll be using, will dissolve and grab onto the bondo or the 2k primer used for the model, don't skip it

and again - if you're just learning this, use regular polyester resin and gel coat for your moulds, they will work for room temperature epoxies (or vinyl) you will use with carbon, just don't lay up too many layers with epoxy, or it will cook the mould when it goes off, and don't build all the mould layers in one setting, do 1-2 layers (~400gr glass per layer) a day and let it cure in room temperature - this is the opposite of what some mould specific resins require

mould specific materials (the expensive stuff) are for long lasting moulds, they have stuff in them that reduces shrinkage, which basically means they keep their shape better (important for larger parts), they may hold higher temperatures - so may suit some prepreg carbon etc, and mould gel coats are a bit tougher than what is used for general production of gfrp parts

this is all very general, if you would share what sort of parts you're making, I (and probably other users here) may help with specific things

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etusch
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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I used mould gel coat and putty for moulding. It's not easy to find what you need in Turkey for this job. So I used what I found.
For lamination MGS LR285 Epoksi and
MGS LH285 Epoksi Hardener. These are not smelling and in an apartment this is important.
My first part was my civic's (2007 hb ) front grill. It's not what I really want to do. I want to make my own design. To do it I must have very good handcraft. But I have not that talent. So decided to buy a desktop CNC to produce my own cad designs.
My second try will be 2din facia from carbon fiber and this is harder than front grill because of facia's inner side.

jz11
jz11
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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if fumes are a problem, then you're out of cheap options in regards of mould materials, vinyl and polyester need vented space to work with, and preferably breathing protection, but you can replace the mould putty with glass cloth reinforcement using the same epoxy you make the parts out of, the only thing I'd test out is how well it grabs on to the gel coat, or, alternatively, you can let the gel coat cure fully and sand it with 60/80 grit paper and lay the epoxy/glass over that

for small parts, with the cnc capability, you can machine the mould out of suitable plastic straight away (I've used aluminum, but machining might be difficult on a hobby cnc), will save you the cost of mould materials, polypropylene may work, but you have to test what works with your epoxy and what you can cut with your machine to a reasonably good finish, some plastics are difficult to sand/polish

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etusch
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Re: Material Question (from Redbull video )

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Yes I have to try somethings as alternative. Because I couldn't find tooling board in Turkey for now. Easy composite says they cannot send mould sealer because of shipping rules. I can't find any alternative for it too, for mould finishing job. There is something called PVC Foam in my country. I don't know if it can be used for CNC. Or how it will be the result